Covert vs vulnerable narcissism - what's the difference?

ORDER MY NYT BESTSELLING BOOK 📖 "IT'S NOT YOU"

JOIN MY HEALING PROGRAM

JOIN THE DR. RAMANI NETWORK

GET INFO ABOUT MY UPCOMING PROGRAM FOR THERAPISTS

SIGN UP FOR MY MAILING LIST

LISTEN TO MY NEW PODCAST "NAVIGATING NARCISSISM"

DISCLAIMER: THIS INFORMATION IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS VIDEO DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL.

THE VIDEO DOES NOT REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON, AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON, AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS VIDEO, ESPECIALLY TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION THAT THE MAKERS OF THIS VIDEO BELIEVE, OR SUPPORT A CLAIM, THAT A SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE VIDEO AND THE INFORMATION FEATURED IN IT.

[NarcSurvivor]

Covert narcissists are not always shy or introverted. They’re just hiding what they do, because they know people would not agree with it.

[qtleihi]

Please look after yourself Dr Ramani. You're a wonderful, caring, empathic human being, as well as helping so many of us to understand and heal from the impact of Narcissistic abuse xx

[sparkygump]

I can't think of any covert narc I've come across in my life who wasn't passive aggressive as well. They're almost impossible to reason with. I stopped trying.

[kristinak.]

Here's a poem I wrote. Excuse my possible errors, English is not my first language:

I know what monster
dwells inside,
he seems so calm,
but he's in hide.

I know his rage,
sharpness of his claws,
I have marks on my skin,
Oh! How bloody it was!

I know that beast,
don't be deceived,
it will rip you apart
before he's reveled.

You'll cry for help
but no one will hear,
because behind your back
he started to smear.

Run while you can,
and put bridges to burn,
so beast can't catch you,
run and don't turn!

[amandasoares]

I used to think the narcissist in my life wasn’t a narcissist because they didn’t show the grandiosity that was traditionally thought as a narcissistic trait… but I always felt something was terribly wrong. Turns out they’re the vulnerable type.

[alisondunning]

This helped. I’ve known since I was a toddler that something was “off” about my Dad. He maintained that his life fell apart when I was born. He held enormous grudges against his previous employers and couldn’t understand why he could never keep a job. Although his rages were ever-present, punishments from him were mostly passive-aggressive. There was a reason I chose to study psychology at collage, back in 1981, but the courses then offered no insight. It’s taken another 40 years for me to finally understand what I’ve been dealing with. I feel glad I’ve lived long enough to understand, but so many years have gone by in a haze of misunderstanding.

[timothydraper]

I got drawn into a friendship by a vulnerable narcissist (with overt traits), I got caught up in trying to fix her, and ended up being depleted and manipulated.

[char]

I know the world of science loves its categories however, out in the wild, it appears to me that all people with this Personality Disorder can use Grandiose, Covert, and Vulnerable tactics in getting what they want. All or some can be seen in a single individual. If they are to be labeled medically it seems they use the category the individual uses most often, but that does not mean the other tactics aren't used by that individual.

[DanielSRosehill]

"What I consider to be the issue of our time" - > Good to hear her affirm that. I really believe we're living through an epidemic of mental health abuse that's probably been going on for a long time but is only now getting openly recognised

[shodack]

Took me a while to realize that my narc was BOTH rolled into one delightful package of hatred.

[sklavinian]

Covert narcissists are overtly withdrawn and deafeningly silent when their cover is blown.

[aishakhanom]

Dr ramani is so beautiful. Although This has nothing to do with the video itself, I just wanted to highlight that, in a world full of filter and glitter, Dr Ramani is such a breath of fresh air.

[musmees]

The covert behaviour kept me trying to please my boss, I felt bad letting her down. My dad was an overt narcicist. I was confused and thought my covert boss needed my support, and so did my (enabeling) co-workers. In the end I found out my covert boss was gaslighting me even more than I had recognised from my overt dad. I went throught the devaluation and discarding proces at work before I quit. It's the covert narcicism that made me really doubt myself because I didn't regognise it. Understanding the diffrent forms and expressions of narcicissm is very important! Thanks for this Dr Ramani, we need to understand this pattern in all it's 360 degrees....

[dianajane]

Thank you, Dr. Ramani, Pincus and Roche! This clarifies a confounding point of confusion for me. Take care of that cold. You are preciously esteemed.

[alannahmayes]

The concept of narcissism being on a spectrum is essential for me. I’ve seen narcissistic traits in myself has been difficult to recognize prevailing traits however having two narcissistic parents and my last relationship being with a narcissist who ended up stalking me. I felt the other day that I was good at reading people, maybe more skilled at it then others however this skill did not lead me to predicting an outcome of behaviour (Humbling moment for me) this does make me anxious in wondering if I have grandiose tendencies however it isn’t surprising when the viewpoint of narcissism is most of what I had growing up. Or the debilitating shame I live with, constant using myself as a punching bag. Long story short as I study to become a counsellor, I very much appreciate your videos Dr. Ramani.

[DiogoHenriqueSantos]

Thank you doctor. You probably saved my life. 🥰

[strugglingmillennial]

Thank you for breaking this down for us, Dr. Ramani. I have seen the switch with my brother during arguments where he would treat me with so much contempt. It’s as if I’m a piece of gum stuck on the bottom of someone’s shoes. Then he’d turn around and play the victim when called out on his abusive behavior. They think people are beneath them, but are so deeply insecure that anything will trigger them.

[MichelleNovalee]

Exactly! My narc is a COVERT Grandiose narcissist. She is not shy at all. An extroverted social butterfly that is very successful. But her covert part is why it took me 37 years to figure it out!!! I wish more people would talk about the covert grandiose narc. I feel like people don’t believe they exist.

[quincicoates]

Dr. Ramani, I think I speak for everyone when I say that we'd like to see more of your cat.

[bitchenboutique]

It took being away from the relationship to fully see that my true offense, the thing I did that upset him more than anything, was that I knew him. I saw him. If he didn’t come right out and tell me a thing, and I just observed it on my own, then I was a liar and made the whole thing up and had no business even suggesting such a thing. (Never mind that it looked like a duck and walked like a duck and quacked like a duck… if he didn’t call it a duck, I wasn’t allowed to call it a duck.)

The second worst thing I did was assume that because I cared about him and considered him my friend that he felt the same way about me. Nope. Nothing quite like being told after a 15 year relationship where you’ve been the shoulder they cried on and the person they could always depend on for love and support when they needed it that the reason they talked to you was “you were the only one there.” Ouch. Good thing I had already decided to walk away when he said that. I don’t think he realized he was telling me I was right in my decision.