Avoidant PD vs vulnerable narcissism

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DISCLAIMER: THIS INFORMATION IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS VIDEO DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL.

THE VIDEO DOES NOT REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON, AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON, AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS VIDEO, ESPECIALLY TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION THAT THE MAKERS OF THIS VIDEO BELIEVE, OR SUPPORT A CLAIM, THAT A SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE VIDEO AND THE INFORMATION FEATURED IN IT.

[Crithosceleg]

I used to empathize with my vulnerable narcissist a lot and really struggled with this idea between APD and vulnerable narcissism, but an idea that really helped me through and settle things is this: both of us coming from trauma, we are cut from the same cloth. The difference is I reflect and push everything inwards (shame and guilt) while she would always project outwards on to everyone else.

[elizabethjennings]

I have avoidant personality and social anxiety. I’ve always been labeled as narcissistic by anyone who wasn’t a counselor or therapist. I’m not passive aggressive and I can’t stand dealing with passive aggression. It causes me to shut down and shut out the world. The entitlement of others also causes me depression. This video was so helpful for me. It perfectly describes what I’ve been struggling with. Thank You.

[aliciacohen]

Thanks for clarifying. I was involved with an AVOIDANT VULNERABLE NARCISSIST - WOW was he well practiced until it all started to unravel.

[carolynkepler]

Avoidant Personality describes me from Junior high on. Only recently have I started to realize that I don’t have to let certain people in my life. I was constantly criticized about my looks, my weight, everything I said or did was scrutinized. I’m actually more of an extrovert. I didn’t know they were projecting their own negative feelings onto me. I now have friends who accept me.

[amrutha]

I used to feel powerless and useless but after watching ur videos gives me some kind of power..
Must say "education is power".

[b-six-twelve]

Needed to see this. I have struggled with AvPD my entire life and have always struggled to find proper care, and when times get rough fall into the trap of returning to my narcissistic parents where my dysfunctional role never changes. Heard the phrase “you can’t heal in the place that made you sick” and it finally highlighted why I wasn’t getting better.

[gingerisevil]

Needed this, because I am a fearful avoidant, and I always worry "what if I am a narcissist?" But I am honestly socially phobic and scared of people...

[justaconversation]

Please more on this!!! Please more on vulnerable Narcs!!! It's such a mentally confusing and scary trap... afraid you are wrong, afraid to hurt them, afraid it's you and you are the one hurting them, moments that mimick empathy and really look like it until something tips their hand... please please please more support for those dealing with Vulnerable

[SurvivingEqwanoX]

Thank you for explaining it so well. So much makes sense now. Mine hid behind a FA mask as he self diagnosed himself with it but his vulnerable narcissism broke me many times. I’ve walked away for the 50th time in hopes it’s the last !

[phemyda]

Avoidant daughter of a vulnerable narcissist. These can definitely look the same but come from a different place. I remember being bullied as a kid and tearfully telling my dad that the other kids didn't like me. He visibly relaxed and confided: "I know... I hate being with people too." This confused me because that wasn't what I had said. But that was how my dad bonded with me, through our shared avoidance. He actually encouraged it. He saw it as a sign that I, like him, felt superior to other people and that he could therefore open up and be himself with me.

In fact, I felt worthless and believed he was the only person in the world who liked me. And the fact that his "affection" could periodically and unpredictably turn to blistering rage and contempt only solidified my mistrust of people and relationships.

[ClearlyBrooke]

What about the Narcissist who ‘avoids’ important communication and discussions that a normal healthy, autonomous relationship would have. Avoiding communication by the following: emotional outburst, defensiveness/accusations, argumentative, interrupting and speaking over their partner, and/or rudely walking away?

[nicolepage]

From my experience another key difference is that in the avoidant pd, part of the social anxiety comes from the knowledge that their disorder might cause discomfort in others in a social situation. But a vulnerable narcissist delights in causing discomfort in others, and will go out of their way to passively create discord between people, especially family members. They get positively giddy, it's really rather disturbing.

[amalie.eugenie]

Already liked this before watching it, because I really like the topic! As someone with AvPD it sometimes scares me to hear about vulnerable narcissism, because there seems to be some overlap.

[marieborchardt]

I've learned so much about myself and my relationships since I started watching your videos Dr. Ramini.
Thank you for all you do to help me navigate my life. ❤

[REJ]

I just got back from a solo traveller vacation. The tour I joined was with a group of solo travellers. It’s a great way to travel if you’re on your own and I’ve enjoyed several of these vacations since I lost my husband a few years ago. A big part of this type of vacation is that you’re forced to join a group of strangers and socialise. I love it. I’ve met some amazing people, some of whom have become friends.

On this particular vacation I met a lady of roughly the same age as me. We happened to be sat next to one another on the plane on the journey out, and at the first hotel our rooms happened to be next to one another. She seemed very shy and anxious and said she was relatively new to these vacations. I took pity and took her under my wing until she found her confidence. I missed an early red flag 🚩 and I’m kicking myself for it. She openly disclosed a bit too much about herself and portrayed herself as a victim of life’s circumstance, which immediately played on my empathy.

On the first evening the group met for our dinner and we all began the process of getting to know one another, with the exception of this lady. She became my shadow, following me as I mingled with the group. Every time I tried to converse with someone else she would pull me back to listening to her.

The next couple of days were challenging because she followed me everywhere. Initially I thought she was very shy and socially awkward, but then I realised she was avoiding joining the group and trying to get me to join the group. I tried to encourage her to mingle and socialise but she kept saying that she thought the group was clique and that she didn’t like anyone except me. I didn’t agree. I could see any signs of anything except a highly social and inclusive group.

After two days I had to speak to her about her clinging on to me and explained that I needed my own space to be able to integrate into the group. This is when her anger came out. The gave me one of the most cold stares I’ve ever received. I stuck to my guns and refused to sit next to her at meals or on the coach. I joined with the rest of the group and had a great time.

Towards the end of the vacation, one of the other group told me that she’d tried to get this lady to join in right at the beginning. What she said next sent chills down my spine. She said she thought the lady I’ve described above was being controlling towards me and that she felt that I was being isolated. I explained how angry this lady became towards me when I wanted my own space to enjoy my vacation the way I normally do. And this is when I was told that this lady had told the group that she and I had decided not to join the group, and that she and I would be spending the vacation together. I was horrified. She had made this decision on my behalf without any discussion with me.

I’m so glad I separated from her as soon as she turned angry. This was a complete stranger to me and yet she latched onto me so quickly it was scary. I thought she was just nervous and shy and avoidant, but she wasn’t. She was a vulnerable narcissist. Later I reflected on the discussions we had and they were all about her.

I think I dodged a bullet!

[shosha]

Just watched the perfectly timed “ A wasted life?” Wonderful, this posted next! Rock on Dr Ramani! Thank you for supporting humanity to know how they might have been alone in pain, but in compassion and raising their chin up to see the sky, they are surrounded by mostly unseen beautiful tiny twinkling stars that glow with possibilities, a resilient inner-worthiness they did not know of and are love .

[confidentsuccessfulwomen]

This was spot on, again! At first I thought, 'oh no is Dr. R going to say that I'm the narcissist?' But Dr. R explained my attachment style perfectly. My avoidant attachment style made me a target for narcissists unfortunately. This kind of information wasn't around 30 years ago.

[SY-wifb]

Thank you so much Dr Ramani for answering my email. It was my question.

My Narc Ex disclosed that she has Avoidant PD after discarding me & repeated the same line to her next supply after discarding her as well after 3-4 months.
My hunch was that my Narc Ex was using AvPD to justify her appalling behaviour & avoid accountability.
Needed a sanity check to identify the difference & confirm what I’m dealing with !

[Caligirl.]

I absolutely needed this THANK YOU THANK YOU. I want to cry. We are in couples counseling now and the therapist claims he’s just avoidant and depressed. But there has been so much contempt and rage and apathy and neglect, I could not accept that answer. Now I know the differences. THANK YOU. I was so confused.

[kevinmasterson]

Thank you so much for the clarification Dr. Ramani. I think I was probably very APD when I was younger. I was very shy & didn't have many friends. Growing up in the chaotic & judgmental environment that I did, it's no surprise that I was very withdrawn & insecure. Yes I think that being APD made me a sitting duck for narcissistic relationships. I felt so unworthy of being loved, that the minute anyone showed any interest, encouragement or love towards me, I was hooked and would do anything to stay in their good graces. After lots of therapy & being burned a number of times, I have finally been able to find my own self-worth without needing the validation of others.