Difference Between Covert Narcissism and Quiet BPD

Both Quiet Borderline Personality Disorder (qBPD) and covert narcissism share underlying emotional instability and difficulties in maintaining stable relationships. Both individuals often struggle with feelings of insecurity and may resort to manipulative behaviors. Additionally, they may both engage in masking behaviors to conceal their vulnerabilities, though through different means. However, key differences emerge in their expression of narcissistic traits, focus of concern, self-image, interpersonal patterns, and response to criticism. While covert narcissists subtly exhibit traits like superiority and a need for admiration, qBPD individuals typically lack overt narcissism, focusing instead on emotional dysregulation and fear of abandonment. Furthermore, qBPD individuals grapple with fluctuating self-images and intense, unstable relationships, while covert narcissists may maintain a more stable self-image and superficial connections to garner admiration. Critically, qBPD individuals tend to react emotionally to criticism, whereas covert narcissists respond defensively to protect their fragile self-esteem.

Daniel J. Fox, Ph.D., is a licensed psychologist in Texas, international speaker, and a multi-award-winning author. He has been specializing in the treatment and assessment of individuals with personality disorders for over 20 years in the state and federal prison system, universities, and in private practice. His specialty areas include personality disorders, ethics, burnout prevention, and emotional intelligence.

He has published several articles and books in these areas and is the author of:

Complex Borderline Personality Disorder: How Coexisting Conditions Affect Your BPD and How You Can Gain Emotional Balance. Available at:

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00:00 Introduction
00:34 Emotional instability
02:55 Interpersonal challenges
04:05 Sense of insecurity
04:56 Narcissistic ego
07:32 Potential for manipulation
09:13 Overt and covert narcissism
12:13 Masking behaviors
14:27 Expression of narcissistic traits
15:44 Focus of Concern
16:44 Self-image
19:31 Interpersonal patterns
20:59 Response to criticism
22:58 What’s a narcissistic wound?

[immrtalitypassin]

Oh this is going to be SO helpful. I was involved with someone who admitted to having Quiet BPD, but who over time, felt & acted like he had vulnerable/covert NPD. And after reading Mark Ettensohn & Craig Malkin's books...I can't imagine he isn't at least both, if not misdiagnosed. No matter what, it was a brutal lesson into my own codependent tendencies and deepest layers of childhood wounds which I'd never had access to until he pulled that out of me, and thus forced me to rebuild myself in a way I am profoundly grateful for. Sometimes our greatest teachers show up in the most unexpected (or unpleasant) ways and letting those lessons be a benefit rather than just another wound, can be life changing.

[lalie]

Oof... I was recently diagnosed with BPD and I am definitely the Quiet BPD type. And figuring out that my ex was a covert narcissist is shocking, but also explains so much. What a terrible mismatched pair. So enlightening.

[KatherineGrey-pzon]

For me, the covert narcissist comes across as a people pleaser. They like to be in the spotlight to get the validation that they crave for, as other narcissists but at the same time, they pretend to be humble, simple, generous, over giving. The covert narcissist will take time to build a relationship/friendship with you. During this period, they will show their admiration and their devotion by helping you with everything that is you need. They will try to convince you that you are soulmates and that they understand you deeply. At the same time, you will see them being overly altruistic, maybe helping society by engaging in charities, activism. They feed the poor, take care of the homeless. All this makes you think how lucky you are for having met such a beautiful soul. You want to be by their side for ever.

However, soon you notice how much they enjoy being invited in galas to talk about their achievements. But they don’t admit that. They still play the humble guy who doesn’t want all this. Who is beyond money, beyond fame and recognition, who wants to share the floor with other people. But their acts don’t match their words. You come to realise that this selfless soul is actually doing whatever it takes to be in the centre of attention. When you do something together be it at work or at home, they want to control everything about it. They just exerce their control in a more polite and implicit way, making you believe that your voice was heard whereas in reality you did what they wanted you to do. Covert narcissists have a smooth way of leading you on. They don’t shout, they don’t give orders. They are master actors. They convince you that you are together in this. What makes them a narcissist is that when the time comes for them to use you in order to draw certain benefits, they will do it without a second thought and you are not going to believe in your eyes.

[AdiraNatali]

Thank you so much for clarifying. This was so helpful.

[YuYu-qsmz]

Funny… Im actually a BPD.. I just thought that Im mostly hiding my pain and my sufferings just because Im afraid of shame for it. Because I didnt overcome it so Im a looser. I also cant ask for help because of this shame that Im a looser and that everyone will know who am I. And if I finally do, I tend to ask for help or favors in a demanding or a whining way, like “they could guess already what I needed all along!!”

[MentalHealthMamaa]

Dr. Danny you read us like a book! I have both quiet BPD (diagnosed) and vulnerable NPD and I love the compassion you speak with about both BPD and NPD. Your videos have calmed me from horrible spiraling, I feel like I have a therapist in my pocket. I just started with 3 therapists 2 months ago but your videos are the bridge of calm in between crisis states. The compassion in your speech for NPD and BPD has taken me out of self destructive crisis moments. I feel much more calm, informed and understood. And I am embracing improvement with every step along the way. At Barnes and noble I got your borderline PD workbook and it feels so grounding. I appreciate you! ✨

[levitatestudent]

I could listen to you all day. Your skill for educating in such an engaging way is amazing and valued.

[LurkingLinnet]

To Dr Fox: An Unsung Hero
Sir you are doing an efficient job at removing the stigma that not only surrounds BPD but Cluster B in general. We truly need more therapists and educators like you, your perspective is enlightening to the ones suffering in the sense that it gives new life to the individual - one that is free of guilt and shame and only filled with compassion for oneself whereas to their loved ones it is a blanket of reassurence and illuminating insight into the pain of personality disorders and mental illnesses.
As a Borderline in remission today, I feel deeply obliged and will never be able to thank you enough for all your support through your YT, IG pages and other free content available as well as your books and card decks. In a world that once felt like quicksand with loopholes waiting for my downfall to a world of dreams and oppurtunities a melting pot for humanity, I thank you from the bottom of my heart. Lots of Love, blessings and good wishes from India. May you be well always. Amen.

[Xaxtarr_Neonraven]

Don't forget all of the psychodrama where they project their issues onto others in order to work out their own. And then if you finally respond to all of their misattributions, they feel validated and react, for them justifiably, to the validation of your issues. "I knew it, you were always the problem, " and they then take their drama to the next relationship and effectively destroy that too, leaving waves of psychological damage in their wake.

[michellepalmiter]

My daughter has BPD and I’m trying to learn everything I can about it and ways to “help” her since she is 28 and will be living together for life at this point. Thank you for putting this video out there.

[lblincoe]

I never understand why people are unwilling to call manipulation "manipulation" when the manipulative tactics are being used by someone with BPD. Whatever the intention or motivation behind it, the actions are still manipulative and their actions are still manipulating people. Whether they're seeking safety or any other potential gain, they're still using covert, dishonest means to influence someone else's actions. It's not fair to say others just "feel" manipulated because someone with BPD is aiming for security rather than another benefit, the reality is that they actually ARE being manipulated.

[peaches]

You always talk about insight is key Dr. Fox, truth is I find myself learning from your videos about other people and myself. I hope you know that you are providing people with a lot of insight and grace. The way you speak about these disorders is very compassionate and helps me be a bit less quick to judge. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and love.

[bryanthomas]

This makes sense finally. I was confused about my lack of emotionality until I can't hold back the crazy anymore.

[Brittney.Scudder]

I'm glad to hear about quiet Bpd. I tend to exhibit quite a bit of the "quiet" symptoms. I think that's why I received my diagnosis very late in life. There is one thing I don't quite understand. I'm not sure if anyone else has experienced this, but are you able to do for others? What you can't do for yourself? I attend school for psych, and I work in the mental health field. I work with many individuals who suffer from chronic or severe mental illness. Mostly schizophrenia and at work I do so well. I am able to lead groups, give meds, help others manage their emotions, and work through traumas, but I can't seem to do it for myself. It's like something in my brain is not clicking. I am patient, calm, efficient, and I sure know my stuff at work but when it comes to myself I'm lost. What is this? Lol. Why can I not transfer this knowledge over? And manage my personal life as well as I do my work life. I take nothing personal at work so maybe that's the difference. Does anyone else experience something similar? Would love to hear general thoughts on this.

[melgonz.]

Once you realize you have manipulative traits (no matter the diagnosis) and you work on changing them, you feel so much better & like your actually growing up emotionally. A lot of us have so much trauma we dont even know whats normal anymore, and we honestly dont consciously realize we are manipulating. I thought I was just getting my needs met the same way I saw my mom do it. When youre walking around not present, a lot of things slip by unnoticed. Not everyone who manipulates is doing it consciously or with the understanding its not normal. I am finding a lot of healing by working on these traits.

[shreyabollock]

Dr fox; thank you so much for your empathy and providing me insight it has helped so much

[sunrayrosin]

So the best thing for anyone who has been hurt or is in an emotional distress is to get the hell away from them and recognize that they are damaged goods and to save yourself. People with challenges are difficult and undeserving of building relationships because they have been abused or abandoned. Got it.

[fightswithspirits]

Your message delivery style captures audience attention and conveys you’re not just an industry leader but have true compassion and passion for the people you help and others. Compare this to a 5 year old video on your channel. Good job. Free ego inflation that’s well deserved.

[RoaringSpaceQueen]

See... there is no winning. If I was neglected as a child at home and ruthlessly bullied everyday in school. Then bullied and routinely dismissed and disrespected as an adult for having a disability, according to this I'm not supposed to talk about the micro aggressions and disrespect I face on a daily basis whenever I interact with people, I'm supposed to tell myself that "this is my life and I can't change it. Just get used to the verbal abuse. Let it roll off your back and love everyone like you're not broken inside". And then. I'm labeled as a narcissist because society is Ableist and it's normal and acceptable to talk condescendingly and dismissively to disabled people, and choose for us and deny us opportunities and resources, then gaslight us by telling us we're not trying hard enough. HOW TF and I'm supposed to have self esteem and confidence in a world that refuses to allow me to excel at anything. If I know I'm capable but denied a respectable place in society because others perceive me as incompetent because of my disability, of course it's going to look like narcissism.
How am I not supposed to feel bitter snd resentful after a long lifetime of being ignored, shunned, overlooked, dismissed, never rewarded, and never getting my needs met. Claiming that my suffering is no different than what others go through is total BS gaslighting. We can acknowledge that others in our circumstances experience the same kind of emotional abuse from others, and yet it does not remove our suffering. The fact that others suffer is in no way a comfort. All you do is prove that the mote should be wider, keep people further away, avoid vulnerability, be extremely self-reliant because no one cares and no one ever will. We are unlovable and the world would prefer we just crawled off and died alone.

[Follow_Yeshua]

I dont think they intentionally hurt. But intent does not negate pain. If I run over your foot by accident, I’m sure it still hurts even though I didn’t intend to hurt you, so I will apologize. Yet they will not, this is what is very difficult. They need a lot of love and they need to have a willingness to confront their demons. If they don’t, they’ll drive away everyone that cares about them simply out of fear. That’s sad.

I used to see her as ruthless, but I’ve come to recognize she’s simply the little girl that never got the love she needed. I hope she finds love and peace. Shit hurts not being able to take away pain from someone you love, even when they’re hurting you.