Victim Mentality vs. Victim Complex: What's the difference?

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In this clip, Tim goes over the difference between a victim mentality and the victim complex and some of the circumstances that contribute to each.

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DISCLAIMER:
Tim Fletcher is not a doctor or licensed therapist. Tim’s videos are for informational purposes only to provide understanding, learning, and awareness about complex trauma. No information published here can replace professional evaluation, diagnosis, or treatment.

[barblc]

How much of this is learned helplessness? Some family systems train children to believe they have no power, no agency. Important to remember that and also have compassion.

[Yakub]

This blinded me for decades. I just woke up and saw myself about a week ago, just before my 40th birthday. It is incredibly painful to realise, but the truth of it was the only way for me to stop. I blamed everything and everyone around me for my continued misery, even though the abuse had stopped decades ago. I refused to recover, because it was always someone else oppressing me, someone else broke me and was keeping me broken. It's a horrific way to live, and if you see the truth of it, fight to escape, your authentic self will thank you for braving that pain. I am just starting to see the real me, and thru all the pain of it, I have found some tiny hope. I hope if you are feeling this, you will find some hope as well ❤ Thank you Tim, your videos have not only openend my eyes, but shone a light in that my heart needed to see.

[faith-owj]

Not gonna lie, Tim lost me a little bit on this one! I love his stuff, but this has a little too much of a cynical take for me. Victim mentality isn't ALL about getting people to pity you so you don't have to work on yourself, come on, have a little faith and compassion.

Let's take my life for example. I am a survivor of incest and was gaslit my whole life about my memories (I've been in a 12 step recovery program specific to this trauma for years, so I now see how typical my response was). Following my divorce, I was DESPERATE for support. One of my friends stopped speaking to me after I came out regarding my sexual abuse bc she said it was too much (understood, that's her choice and she's allowed to do that). But after that, I decided not to tell any other friends about it because I didn't want to lose anyone else, and also I realized maybe I should take this to my family, not to my friends.

When I disclosed to my family, my mother (who knew about it my whole life, I told her when I was little and I was beaten for it and her and my grandmother covered up the sexual abuse so no other family members other than them and my perpetrator knew) then ran a smear campaign against me in the family and I was isolated for years. Thank God when I was in a very desperate state and I was close to suicide, one of my brothers recognized what was going on and began talking to me about it, educating himself, and he eventually started to see the signs and believed me. Now he's one of my fiercest supporters, but let me tell you, I almost killed myself during those years where my whole family thought I was crazy and I had nobody except for my other 12 steppers (a lot of whom were in similar circumstances as me) who understood. I had difficulty with work, night terrors, difficulty eating and keeping food down, and I will admit I felt very angry and felt very sorry for myself. I wasn't throwing myself a pity party because I didn't want to take responsibility. I was feeling so angry and sad because I was overwhelmed and didn't know what to do, and truly didn't think I mattered anymore.

I love tim fletcher and I will continue to listen to his work and I'm so grateful for him! But this video felt invalidating and like it had a cynical view towards traumatized people.

Sometimes people are acting in what you perceive to be a "victim" not because they're evading responsibility. It wasn't my fault I was raped and then beaten and gaslit for it. And during those years, I wasn't suicidal because I wanted pity. I truly felt like I didn't matter and was expressing how I felt. But I wasn't searching for someone to take the responsibility of healing away. Hell, I just needed to know that healing was possible and how the fuck to do it!

Proud to say I'm doing much better in life and am now thriving in my financial space and my relationships, and I thank people like my brother who didn't tell me to "stop crying and pick yourself up by your bootstraps", but instead listened to me like, validated how I felt, and helped me learn that healing was possible and being alive was worthwhile.

To those of you reading this who have similar background as me, you matter and what happened to you was NOT your fault. Don't be afraid to feel compassion for yourself, because thru that compassion, you'll eventually find a reason to keep living. It's true that we are the only ones that can change our lives, but that doesn't mean it's our fault for what was done to us and for the damage it left. You are not weak if you are disregulated and down in life. In fact, you're strength shines thru when u can finally accept where you're at and began questioning the shame that was never yours to carry in the first place!

I don't think Tim meant to victim blame at ALL with this talk and there is some useful information, but I don't think this information is totally useful or accurate for everyone, so take it with a grain of salt and be kind to yourself!

[kylesweeney]

I had a therapist tell me she didn’t think I’m acting like a victim. Bc I wasn’t.

Now, I realize I was victimized. And it’s a behavior of learned helplessness.

If I always have this childhood to blame for my shortcomings, then I always have an out. To not date, work, be better etc,

I validated myself by saying yes, I was a victim of narc abuse. Finally admitting it. But I moved into not blaming everyone else for my self sabotage.

Yeah I learned patterns. Yea I was treated horribly. And it’s my responsibility now to change.

That’s where victim mentally leaves. When you genuinely just want to feel not like crap and an outcast most of the time.

It’s good to instead feel like that and embrace the lonliness.

Be a victim. Feel the feelings. As long as you have this goal to overcome it.

For me, I now stopped looking in every direction for the answer “why am I broken?”

The truth lies somewhat in that I was made to believe I was defective.

But all along I was whole.

This is where narc abuse wrecks your self-concept, to make you dependent.

So be victim, grieve, but let it move through you. Don’t get stuck in the fear stage too long.

[divine]

It does, I’m battling a victim mentality now, battling addiction, wanting people to feel bad for me, not taking accountability, being spiritually lazy, not wanting to grow and change. Blaming everything on (My environment, how I grew up) not feeling like I’m valuable. It’s definitely something! I went to church and they told me I said a victim mindset I had no idea.

[charlenejacoby]

This was me until I learned I could set boundaries. It was like I never even heard of the concept that I could keep myself safe by setting and enforcing internal and external boundaries. It was like I had zero protection against myself and others because I could not see that I had care for myself and not expect others to do it for me.

[JessCyph]

It's so hard to know how to help people with a victim complex, too. By "helping, " we (codependents) often enable the self-destructive cycle to continue... but when we don't, the "victim" sees us as being like "everyone else" who has ever hurt, abandoned, betrayed, etc. them.

[silverwasp]

Clinicians need to be VERY effing careful about thinking this way towards their patients. Can it be this way? Absolutely. But in reality intense chronic long term childhood trauma can cause neurodivergence, and no matter how much they try they may not ever be able to succeed; creating a situation where professionals are essentially telling patients to levitate. When the poor patient inevitably can't hover 6 feet off the ground, they blame the patient. No, often the patient can't do the things you demand. That isn't a decision. Stop victim blaming. Obviously they'd want to but it doesn't work when they try.

Professionals that think that these people that are beaten down, depressed, anxious, and have been trying and failing at healing are just "attention seeking" or "avoiding self-responsibility" create the most hostile and re-traumatizing conditions. The industry needs to get over the idea that 'everyone is just deciding to be this way' and stop over-diagnosing BPD like symptoms. Validate the pain, be there with your client as an ally. Help them see the good and potential in themselves before you demand they "take responsibility" and they'll more likely have more sustainable slow progress than they would if you make them burn out on the idea of help in the first place.

[yellowdayz]

Oh my goodness! Thank you Tim. I have decided I do want to watch much more of your videos. At 55 years old... Sounds familiar? Yep, I am learning. My covert malignant narcissist pschopathically played reactionary abuse on me to a real hell... I can't imagine the others, that say the same thing, could have been tortured mentally as bad as I was. Yes, no one really gets this.. But the counselors do and the victims. If that doesn't say anything!

I am now.. Forever changed. And can only be grateful that I am still alive after going through the vultures not knowing how many there were.

I have found that I am fairly shocked how I walked, talked, slept, went to - few family outings.. Church... Moved abroad to be self sustaining miassionaries...with a man that was pretending.. He wanted me and my son to pay for his childhood trauma.. I know this now.. It is horrific pill to realize and to swallow.. One that will take a few years for some of us to shake. For me it is this cloud.. Not necessarily always something on my mind. However. I recognize there is no other way to get past this...

.. Only to find I never could get the ball rolling!! Far as being a self sustaining missionary family in Africa.. Only to be swimming uphill all the time.. Because of my abuser all done to my central nervous system..

When I snapped... I snapped..

Went through the guilt that tore me alive.. I used to own a day care... Did two nanny jobs. Both families loved me. Trusted me with their bank checks etc no joke.... I loved those children as my own and retired early.. And later missed the enough to cry. Especially the children who were more neglect by busy yet loving parents....

I am a shell of myself.. He led me to believe I am a monster because I yelled and screamed at him. I would not have believed it.. If it wasn't for the videos here.

He is a religious man.. Hia dad was a lawyer and a pastor..

I had savings money when we met. (God protected most out money. He was exploiting that. I had to take the bank cards away from him. And his ID and drivers licence.. Threatened to turn him in for such serious abuse as he over reached etc.. And he did not object... I later found out he bough a girl a car behind our backs.. More criminal crimes to press charges against.. And we settled a divorce case.. Ans I spared a good chunk..lost probably 200k to his just doing wrong things.. Paid for a storage bill for 8 years erc)

... I was not in debt when we met, not doing drugs.. Wanting to serve the lord. With full custody of my son because of abuse.... Doing day care for a living when I met the abuser...

Oh.. Pray for all of us. Hugs

PS after the initial first anger episodes with my abuser.. I thought maybe I was developing a strangeanger from childhood etc and thought I better take anger management classes.. I made the appointment and the therapist said.. "I don't think you have an anger problem, but if it gets worst, come back.."

I should have...

.

[starnavigator]

I struggle with this concept. Yes, I want to take responsibility for the direction of my life. No, I don't want to be in pain. But it's so complex I don't know where to start. I want to tell everyone all about how I feel, but I fear that kind of exposure. I've known friends who were "attention-seekers", and I later realized they were doing that because they did not get the loving attention they NEEDED as kids. I did have to start setting boundaries when I realized I was getting drained trying to save them. That didn't mean their wellbeing wasn't important to me. I just wasn't in a position to heal them, and honestly had no idea how to help except to listen.
They were actually victims of abuse. And they are not being given the tools they need to actually heal, as far as I can tell. Yes, healing has to be the person's choice. But so much information on how to actually do it is withheld or tough to find. And also, the idea of change is scary. Your coping mechanisms are what helped you survive as a kid. So letting go of those is frightening. How are you going to face the world ... face yourself without them? How do you find a sense of safety to where you can start letting go and building a new life?

[beatefuhrer]

Truly feeling compassion instead of pity makes all the difference in being able to heal yourself.
👍❤️😇
Victim mentality is an inner attitude, a kind of war mode of the false self,
and a sign of an egocentric status ("false dominion") over the "True Self", and the Higher Consciousness is not available in these situations, it is a kind of lost soul sign,
if you will.
Unhealthy patterns and habits arise when we live in this sense of our own prison and for that we are the controllers and masters of our own imprisonment!?

Free yourself ;-)

Thank you Tim Fletcher,
One of the most common reasons for feeling lost in our own lives is this unhealthy mindset.

Best regards
Beate
❤

[DarknessIsThePath]

Either way, I am done with people like this, some might have actual deep traumas to deal with but at the end of the day, unless one is willing to sacrifice their own freedom and health to a large extent, it will only drag you down and make you sick eventually.

[heatherkimler]

This makes u feel you're fundamentally broken. So, idk. Going to just be alone. It'll be over soon enough

[MrAllysonn]

Victims mentally in my experience was being done to me to manipulated me to be a therapists taking up my time, resource and even money. Once I recognized the cues and how I feel I stopped entertaining the person then the victim mentality comes back to me for another session and we got to an argument. I felt relieved.

[kirsikka]

It is also as dangerous to be too strong. It kills all feelings and ability to cry. I'm trying to learn healthy reactions and grieving.

[Lyrielonwind]

I have been trying to have self compassion, not self-pity because my inner critic is ferocious but I guess that people who might hear me could think I'm victim playing.
I have been trying to not isolate more than I am but I don't find the right people although I think I have made improvement about my people's pleasing and fawning response which I wasn't even conscious.
I'm not sure if someone can go from disorganized attachment to avoidant. I hope so, it's much better than feeling the scapegoat everywhere I go. I'm sick of it.
I'm better now at spotting red flags although somehow I have lost the joy and I guess the "innocence" or naiveness that made me a human magnet to narcissists.
I'm 60 and sometimes I feel like a baby 🐥; not ready for adultness. I guess it's because I didn't have a childhood.

[JOSH-mlfh]

Freighting to see how many people expect a 5 min video to explain their whole life experience accurately. The people triggered by this video are just showing their victim mentality.

[Elizabethpepper]

When your entire life is comsumed with blaming, hating, and punishing yourself for being abuse, it is devastating. When you resalize it wasnt your fault and you didnt deserve it, there is massive pain for the life lost. If someone is victimized, they are a victim. Refusing to validate this and accusing the person of being manipulative is abusive and allows perpetrators to continue to escape responsibility of their actions.

There is a difference between blaming and handing accountability to the rightful owner. After a lifetime of carrying immense shame that was never ours to hold, ill be damned it someone calls my pain self pity.

Victim isnt a dirty word, and victim mentality isnt what ive described. The abusers who claim victimhood to manipulate have victim mentality .

[deadlyjello]

I have a friend that plays victim 24/7 to reap the rewards of state benefits. 42 living w mommy and daddy. No real bills. They buy everything for her from new car, car payments, cell phone paid. She gets full state health insurance and food stamps because ‘she just can’t work’. Apparently she was abused 12 years ago but now just won’t work because she says the benefits are too good. So… is she really a victim or just playing the role to work the system? She’s a pretty poopy friend if/when it doesn’t serve her. Asking people to pickup her kid all the time and she never follows through with things. She can work and chooses not to. Am I being callous? I had to distance myself from her. I was a victim once but never let it consume me. I never took advantage. She’s now just playing the game to get state funding… makes me mad and pretty sick to know how she’s just manipulating people and the system.

[LaSavanteSauvage]

Can you define learned helplessness and how it differs from this?