Victim or Narcissist? Tell Them Apart!

Narcissists always claim to be victims, play the victim's card, sometimes convincingly.

Codependents and people-pleasers use control from the bottom and victimhood. But so do narcissists. Many of them claim to have been devalued and discarded.

How to tell which is which?

Splitting (I am all good, they are all bad)

Non-discrimination (every girlfriend, spouse, business partner victimized them)

Self-pity

Ostentation coupled with goal orientation: celebrity, money, sex

Alloplastic defenses and an external locus of control: no responsibility or blame as a defense against shame and guilt (none of this was my fault, I am not responsible, I contributed nothing to my predicament)

Denial of misconduct or proportionality of response, grandiose morality, claims of coercion or brainwashing

Never apologize

Automatism (never reflect and analyze)

[sarahjensen]

Real people let their actions speak for themselves. Any time someone puts a lot of work into telling me what a good person they are, my walls go up.

[z.s]

In one of your videos you said that no one should wear their victimhood as an identity, real victims try to heal and move on. Narcissists wear their experiences as a victim like a badge of honour and keep bringing it on and on every time they can.

[johnpatzold]

My advice is to pay attention to the subtle clues provided by a narcissist's family member. Once things go south, you will pick up on their "it's to be expected" vibes. For instance, when I finally caught my wife cheating, afterwards realizing she had more than one partner, my ex-wife's mother, after seeing me in distress, hugged me, thanked me for all what I do for the kids, and told me to "choose happiness." Haven't talked to my ex in years, but her mother always sends me father's day, and Christmas cards. Go figure.

[ritz]

My ex told me he was an actual empath. So I asked him: if you knew how you were making me feel all those years, why did you continue to torture me? And invalidate my feelings when I told you how you constantly hurt me?
His answer: I am an empath, but that doesn’t mean I can ALWAYS know what you’re feeling!
What a genius 😂

[marandac]

They contradict themselves frequently, especially when they get upset and want to divert attention away from something they said or did or to prove a point.

[NancyCronk]

A narcissist will rarely if ever, sincerely apologize for their behavior. They don't learn moral lessons, only how to manipulate better the next time.

[marandac]

In counseling sessions my alleged narc would say one thing then a few minutes later he would say something that completely contradicted what he said earlier. He was so arrogant he thought we wouldn’t notice or that we would just hang on his every word. I felt like I was in the twilight zone.

[ravenwinds]

Literally driving in my car listening to this. I cannot express in words what this video has validated for me and made me not only feel seen and heard but that I'm not crazy and he's a cluster pile of major disorders. Mr.Vaknin keep making videos you are Freeing us from so much pain and suffering and confusion. Thank you!

[cherankimiorak]

This message is profound!!! My ex narc said it was ALL his ex gfs that were bad and cheated, my businesses failed because of my business partners..!! It was always directed at others.. Never himself😒

[MrTarot]

How I know I'm a victim? I can go to therapy and learn ways to improve upon myself, as well as having to be TOLD I have underlying trauma, because I don't recognize my experiences as such. I was floored when I had to be told that my relationship was more traumatic than anything else. Victims don't actively notice their own trauma in a lot of cases, not until it's explained by a therapist. Oftentimes we defend our abusers until we can be shown just how far from 'normal' our situation is or was.

[RFokus]

Dear Prof 😀 Are you kidding?? I never miss a second of your videos!!! ❤️ Such valuable stuff for free can not be missed! But the summery at the beginning is a good idea. Gives structure to the whole lecture.

[yootoob]

Re: apologizing - while hearing someone can apologize and it can be very healing to the relationship with the person whom toward the infraction or misstep was committed, it can also also play out that someone mouths "I'm sorry" thinking that simply by saying the words it instantaneously absolves them of any wrongdoing and brings them back to their state of self perceived grace. A normal person feels guilt internally, and that's different from different from strictly worrying about someone else's perception of them and the consequences that might follow if they fall short in the other person's eyes. It's no secret that people with extremely strong narcissistic tendencies (or even lesser tendencies in a more normal sense in whatever area in life someone might have them, and we ALL do in different increments being human and imperfect) have equally strong external loci of control.

[roxy]

Thank you so useful. My bpd/np co parent constantly refers to all his ex girlfriends as a collective we are all exactly the same ‘woman trying to pin him down’ he is the victim 😂

[BT-rrlj]

Thank you so much for your entertaining and personable presentations. You are helping me understand people in my life, my family, for the first time in my life. And I’m even able to allow my ancient anger to start transforming into what may become compassion. These narcs are following a script I haven’t seen and didn’t write. What they do isn’t my fault. My job is to limit contact once I realize who they are. The best “closure” is a closed door.

[sarahmcnicol.lifecoach]

Check, check, check. Thank you Sam for such clear and horribly familiar descriptions.

[janebrown]

Such a clear guide to this subtle challenge! Thank you so much.
....I must add, though...
 
Narcissists' victims can begin to look very narcissistic like their long-term partners in certain circumstances.

The covert narc can, and does it if suits him, train his victim to be his bulldog, and the victim performs as required (in defined settings) out of fear/ compliance/ codependence/ gaslit confusion/ loss of identity and values.

If the covert narc achieves this level of control, his payback is:
- less work for himself
- the amusement of puppet-mastering his own agenda
- looking innocent and getting sympathy for having an aggressive spouse (pity-play)
- justifying getting consolation on the side, while lining up his next victim...

This setup makes it particularly hard to identify who is the narcissist.

[amazoniablue]

I broke up with the narc. He continued to take other womens side against me. I just had it.
He is moving and first he tells me to come and sleep over. On the phone I say I should leave before 11 the next morning cause a cleaning lady will come by and clean the old apartment. He then says “I have to go pick her up” I said why, she can take the bus cause in other occasions he always says to me to take the bus to him after work. He says no he has to pick her up and tells me like Good bye but doesnt hang up the phone and acts like a victim accusing me of wanting a fight. I said why do you have a problem now when another woman a stranger taking the bus but not when you want me to take the mf bus! No response.
Dumb as I am I go to him on the evening thinking I will stay the night and its the last time ever. Cause he texted me on the afternoon and I percieved it as him wanting me to come over with my gut feeling screaming dont go sTay home ignore the moron .
Background story: Well I did filler in dec, at a salon he took me to, cause he knew the woman owning the salon. She was supposed to give me a consultation before lipfillers and I got nothing out of it. She took my money tho. I found them to be unprofessional so I didnt want to do my lips there but couldnt get a refund. This idiot called her and talked to her and booked an appointment for me even tho I said no. They promised better treatment and so on. I did my lips and after a month I see they are uneven. So I go to another treatment facility much more professional and thorough and get my lips fixed. I wrote a review on her fb page and google.
That evening when I went to sleep over the mf asks me to remove my review even tho he knew very well how my lips got and how badly I was met. Taking the other womans side against me. I didnt even ask why or anything just took my bag said “go to hell, you are not well, you can go to hell”
He gets up trying to block the door, I first said “move” he didnt and then I had to raise my voice and said again “MOVE”.
On my way down he says “dont let me see your face again” with a shivering voice, I responded “shut the f upp and go to hell” and went.
How could he seriously believe I wanted to see his face again. I didnt leave and asked him to go to hell caise I wanted to see him again. I returned a jacket I got from him and some slippers he payed for last year the only thing that he gave me and ever payed for .
He blocked me when I went, so I had to hang the jacket on his car and the slippers under his car door. After that, last week saturday I havent heard from him. Last time we fought he hit me and hoovered me two days after for a week. He looked me up when I refused to answer his calls and apologized and said he will do what it takes for me to forget what happend between us. He love bombed me and I knew I couldnt forget but still fell for it.
This time it seems like he is gone forever now I guess.
So I think it’s over now. What needed to be done is to raise my voice and ask him to go to hell I assume. It seems to have helped for me to get rid of him. I am so sick of him. So disgusted. He is broke, owns nothing, divorced two times, has two daughters, doesnt speak to his on of his daughters. Had a fight with his sister who he doesnt speak to either. He is 57 years old. Looks good for his age but such a lowlife and I who got in a relationship with him that I regret badly, am also a lowlife for that now. I am 34 years old never been married nor do I have children, how could I be in a relationship with him I dont know what got in to me. How stupid I was. Almost 2 years I gave of my life. I have a university degree aswell he barely passed elementary school. You should tell me I am an idiot I know it. Hopefully I will never do the same mistake again.

[hypnotherapistgurudebraann]

My husband exactly to the It's incredible how you describe him exactly! The only thing is occasionally he will say sorry and then be intimate and then back to his narc self. I stay for the baby 😢 until i can financially free myself.

[deloresleia]

My ex got out of our bed, told me he was flying to another city for a business trip when in fact he was flying to take another women to black tie event. When it was discovered he said he didnt lie because he had business on his mind and he didnt really take this women out, he just drove her and sat by her because she didnt have a ride to the event. In his mind he did not lie to me or cheat on me… What? He actually was believing he was a good guy for helping someone out and 100 equally pathetic reasons why he had to lie about it which he would never admit.. he just had other things on his mind … im like what? picking up his tux for the event!
Bizarre thing was he believed his nonsense. He is all good.. always!!

[BlancaBlackContact]

There are psychopathic narcissists who never reveal details about their traumatic childhood - so as not to look weak and poor, and they deny even to themselves what their mother did to them (Tony Soprano for example.. and other real people I've met (my father for example.. and a few more.. also girls)