Does Regeneration Precede Faith? | Answering James White & Calvinism | With Leighton Flowers

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[johnbanman]

Bro Leighton… I just have to tell you that I have been tremendously blessed and refreshed by your teaching of the scriptures. Your humble and honest look at the scriptures has ministered to my soul. Thank you very much!

[cecilspurlockjr.]

Regeneration before faith is simply saying that one is saved before belief, which is nonbiblical heresy . This is actually one of the least offensive distinctives within the blasphemous claims of calvinism, sadly . The worst is the claims of calvinism that accuse GOD of hypocrisy and HIS hate of unborn children, and that HE created them just so HE could hate them and punish them in orde to show HIS power for HIS glory of all things. Only fools speak this way about YHWH because those who love and fear HIM and realize what HE has revealed in scripture about HIMSELF understand that to speak about GOD the way calvinists do is blasphemy by definition.

[SgtRock]

Keep teaching Christ and the cross Jordan & Dr. Flowers. We'll keep praying for you & Dr. White & his worshipers.

[CrestviewScott]

It's amazing how often James White completely misunderstands the actual arguments of those with whom he disagrees.

[christian_gamer_guy]

It's so so sad to see James White struggle to understand such a simple text due to his suppression of the truth for so long :(

[rlee]

Ever notice that Calvinists are only able to capitalize on the metaphors and never on the clear texts?

[elroyjenquist]

Calvinists in general and this one in particular make me want to shave.

[lawrencestanley]

We don't go to boogie man labels like "Calvinism" to define what we believe, but rather, we go to the totality of the scriptures and the scriptures alone.

Faith is not an obedience that God first looks for in someone before He will save them, after all, while the Scriptures say that we are saved “by, ” and “through” faith, they never say that we are saved “because” of our faith. Faith is not even something that those outside of Christ who do not walk according to the Spirit can have (Romans 8:7); in fact, the wicked do not even have the right to covenant with God (Psalm 50:16) – this passage alone is an insurmountable obstacle for those who believe that faith must precede regeneration, they simply do not have the right. Therefore faith is something that must be received from God (2 Peter 1:1).

Salvation is “because” of the work of Christ and given to certain individuals by the grace of God, and “through” the means of faith, but this faith is not something that is wrought in us by our own doing, it is the effect and definite result of His work in us (John 6:29, Hebrews 12:2, Philippians 1:6); it is a fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23) that is the means through which man is sanctified (Acts 26:18); this sanctification is first positional - whereby we are first set apart as holy (Ephesians 2:5-6, Colossians 1:13, 1 Corinthians 12:27, 1 Peter 2:9, 2 Corinthians 5:17, Romans 6:2, 2 Peter 1:4), then it is progressive – whereby, over time we are saved from the practice and power of sin through an increase in holy living (1 Peter 1:15-16, Ephesians 2:10, Romans 8:29, 2 Corinthians 3:18, John 17:17), and then it is final - when in glory we are finally saved from the presence of sin (1 John 3:2). It is God’s grace that saves us, and He produces faith in us that sanctifies us (Philippians 2:13).

This sanctifying grace of faith, once God has given an individual the Spirit of wisdom and revelation to enlighten his eyes (Ephesians 1:17-20), is given by God through the ordinary means of the gospel (Ephesians 1:13, Romans 10:17), and is what permits an individual to submit himself to God and to desire to do so (Cf. Genesis 15:6, Acts 26:12-23); the righteousness of Christ is then imputed to him (Romans 4:9-25), and the Holy Spirit secures and preserves his eternal salvation (Ephesians 1:13-14) – this is the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5).

[bobthrasher]

Anyone who believes in baptismal regeneration knows that regeneration MUST follow faith. This is because baptism follows faith and regeneration is the last thing that happens in baptism. If you don't see where baptismal regeneration comes from, just read Col 2:11, 12 and Rom 6 and take them literally and maybe you will see it. Circumcision is a "sign" according to scripture, but baptism is never said to be a "sign." How could it be? "Signs" can be seen, such as with circumcision and "signs and symptoms, " but no one can "see" that you were baptized - except from your being set free from slavery to sin. Freedom from sin's power is the "sign" of the circumcision spoken of in Col 2:11.

[grahck]

My mom got a seminary degree when my dad got his from Covenant Seminary, which is a heavily Calvinistic seminary. She really baffled her professors when they began teaching on Baptism, specifically Infant Baptism, as being synonymous with Circumcision in the Old Testament when she asked "Why baptize girls?" Taking a page out of my mother's book, proverbially speaking, I ask this to Calvinists. If Circumcision spoken of in the New Testament is the same as pre-faith regeneration, then does that mean females don't need pre-faith regeneration?

[TheMaineSurveyor]

I'm a Reformed Baptist, I agree with the Canons of Dort, and all the other scary boogeyman things that anti-Calvinists and/or Dispensationalists don't like about Reformed folks. But, I haven't seen a compelling argument yet for regeneration preceding faith. I think a case can be made for regeneration and faith happening at the same moment, but not necessarily for regeneration preceding faith. This is where I differ with White, Sproul (rhymes with "soul"), and other Reformed pastors/theologians.

But I believe the Scripture where it tells us that the natural man can't understand the things of God. Without the Spirit, they are foolishness to him. The gospel is one of those things of God. No one can understand it without the Holy Spirit.

Additionally, Jesus is the Author of our faith. It has been granted to us to believe in Him. I don't think we need to take it further than Scripture says.

[forthegospel]

16:00 This got me confused 😂 So, Leighton is watching a video of James White watching a video of Leighton watching a video of a debate of Leighton. That’s an inception :)

[abuelb]

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (1 Peter 1:3, ESV)

[grahamneville]

Col 2.12 clearly states that the elect have knowledge of being raised to life "through the faith of the operation of God" - in other words, the faith given to behold the risen Saviour and the life, eternal life, that He gives through His perfect obedience to the Law, is a work/operation of God. The elect were quickened when Christ rose from the grave as their "life is hide with Christ in God" (Col 3.3). Jesus also talked about this work of God to the Jews in John 6.29 - "This is the work of God, that you believe on Him whom He hath sent."

[ericfisher]

If God preordained everything then Moby Dick is the word of God.

[vcm]

Because of freewill Adam and Eve Fall even in the presence of God. Man will always choose themselves rather God's righteousness. (Men always choose selfworth)

Since Men are dead to sin and cannot save themselves so by God's mercy and grace, God must do a miraculous work in people’s lives before they are able to believe in Christ unto salvation enabling them to hear and follow Christ (God's righteosness)

[ogmakefirefiregood]

Which comes first? Let's just say you exercise your free will and choose to believe. How long after that moment are you regenerated? How could anyone ever tell? A whole lot of drama for nothing. Just make sure you let God know you made it possible for him to save you.

[janetdavis]

Since when is circumcision a sign of forgiveness? God established it to represent the covenant he made with Israel, as a nation. He’s nothing to do with individual salvation, whereas adult baptism is defined as an outward symbol of salvation.

[Terrylb]

God did not choose me, I chose God . I used my freewill and I chose God, and when I stand before God he will say well done thy good and faithful servant and I will say yes I know . I just wish more people were as smart as me and use there freewill and choose Gods salvation also.

[joshuadavidson]

Would love to set up a chat with both of you. this was great.