Does Regeneration Precede Faith? Responding to RC Sproul

Discussing the controversial view on Calvinism of pre-faith regeneration. Are you born again so as to believe or are we born again by faith?

[bobfree]

in every example that i see in scripture, i see Belief Always before anyone is Regenerated.

[danielglidden]

The Problem With Deterministic Sovereignty Theology (Calvinism/Reformed Theology)

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, ) full of grace and truth."

Having really tried to consider and to understand the Calvinistic (deterministic sovereignty) position for quite some time now, and really having wrestled with my own understanding of the Scriptures on this subject, I think I understand where the Calvinist goes astray in his interpretation of the Scriptures. It is layed out very clearly, I believe, in the above passage.

The Word, who was in the beginning with God and who was (and is) God, the Creator of all, in whom is life, who is the Light and in whom is no darkness at all, enlightens every man that comes into the world. However, man does not comprehend that Light. Therefore, the Word became flesh, and dwelled with us, in order to reveal himself unto us. He sent a witness before himself, namely John the Baptist. The Light's own world that he made, did not know him. Even his own people, the Israelites (the Jews), through whom he chose to come and to reveal himself to the world, did not receive him! However, to whomever did receive him, he gave the power to become a son of God. Such people are born of God, are born of the Spirit, not of the will of man nor of the flesh.

The Calvinist says (at least all the ones that I have listened to) that a person must be born of the Spirit of God before he can receive Christ, before he can place his faith in him. However, the passage says that to those people who receive Christ, to those who believe on him, He gives the power to become the sons of God. God's Spirit regenerates and makes a child of God of those who receive Christ! Make no mistake about what the Bible is saying! No person would come to faith in Christ without God working without and within that person! However, the new birth occurs only as a result of a person placing his faith in Christ!

The Calvinist sees receiving Christ and believing in him, if prerequisite to the new birth, as a meritorious act, not as faith. They see it as a man willing himself to be saved. However, the Scriptures teach clearly that receiving Christ is a response of faith to the working of God, by which a person is saved! Faith is not a meritorious act, but a humble response to the work and the will of God, bringing a person's will into conformity to the will of God! God sends witnesses of the Light that all men through his working might believe! No person deserves salvation because he believes in Christ! Nobody could ever deserve the sacrifice of God's Son! However, God has commanded men to believe on his Son and he will not save those who refuse the Word, the Light, his Son!

In Christ's Love
Daniel Glidden

[kenveaseybible]

Hello Layton, love your ministry! keep up the good work. do you have any thoughts on eschatology, and what are you views concerning end times?

[RobotMowerTricks]

Brian, I love your Socratic method with David. Really well done. It's a treat to watch it be done that well

[SpielbergMichael]

This is such a beautiful video. I felt all the people in this video loving each other as brothers in the faith. It was beautiful to see; and it’s a great example to follow.

[TheNikolinho]

i enjoyed this friendly discussion. i just want to salute Brian's knowledge and points, and Calvinist's friendliness and politeness (which isn't always super easy to find).

[jaygee]

Really, really liked this one! So much packed into these three hours. Appreciate David?...as the Calvinist standing against those who disagreed. He’s wrong, but it was nice to see a gracious, thoughtful Calvinist, and to stand alone against incredibly smart men you disagree with is a hard thing to do.
I’m glad that you went off on a tangent with Brian?...debating open theism vs. Eternity now. I guess I lean towards eternity now (even though I don’t fully grasp it), but have been engaged in and reading some of the contributions of super intelligent open theists in your comments section, so to listen to the two of you explain it and disagree with each other on this was very helpful.
I encourage all theology nerds, educated or otherwise, to view these videos, and point others to this site.

[bobfree]

If man is indeed purely evil, it is easily seen that man cannot possibly obey God's command to repent. God threatens to eternally punish those who do not repent. But if man is purely evil and thus cannot repent, then God is not just. Rather, man can indeed repent. Even Moses declared to his hearers that what he is commanding them to do is not too difficult or beyond their reach. Moses simply commanded them to love God, to walk in his ways and his commands, decrees, and laws. Yet, if man is totally incapable of any non-evil-motivated action, then man surely cannot whole-heartedly repent, and man surely cannot obey God's laws with all his heart and all his soul as is commanded in Deuteronomy 26:16.

[bobfree]

God knows the heart of man, He knew that Cornelius and his family was Praying To Him. So he tells Peter to go and expound to him of me. Peter starts talking and only a few moments an then Cornelius was Regenerated or Filled with the Holy Ghost.

[treythompson]

This is something that all Armenians should take into consideration when they consider their theology and how they interpret what Jesus and the Apostles preached concerning the true gospel and the path to salvation. What you and Miss Flowers believe concerning the gospel is not offensive to anyone you would never have to worry about done with the gospel you preach and believe. I don’t know if you have recognized this or not but all of the Apostles were murdered and Jesus was crucified because of what He preached. What y’all teach and believe is not offensive to anyone!

[daric_]

There's no magical beam of light to signify when one is regenerated. We don't know the specific moment we are regenerated, but if we sincerely seek God, repent and turn to Him in true faith, it means we have been regenerated. This is what the Savior meant in John 3 when saying the rebirth is the work of God and comparing it to a wind, not knowing where it's coming from.

[daric_]

I don't see how John 1:9 is saying all are able to accept Christ. This just means we are all given certain light or knowledge. Romans 1 says we all know in our hearts that there is a God.

The idea that all men are enabled to choose to follow Christ in our natural fallen state goes against Romans 8 (the natural man cannot please God and is an enemy of God) and John 6 (No one can come to Christ unless the Father who sent Him draws us. And if we are drawn, we will be lifted up on the last day).

This being an enemy to God and not being able to please Him is not as a result of being calloused as Dr. Flowers is stating here. This is our natural state if left to ourselves. This is why God must change our hearts from stone to flesh (Ez. 37) in order to even desire God and come to Him.

[nathanburgett]

Love my brother David. I used to be a lot like him and believed the same before the Spirit got a hold of me. Hoping he'll see it if he's seeking truth💚. Shout out to my reasons for Jesus brothers😂

[janebailey]

The natural man cannot receive the things of God . Unless he is born of the Spirit he can not have SAVING Faith. John 1: 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor the will of man but of GOD. Man wants to think he is in charge. God is Sovereign . John 6:65 Jesus said this" For this reason I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father." Just to say you believe is not Saving Faith . The devil also believed. First John 5 1 "Whoever believes that JESUS IS THE CHRIST is BORN of God." To believe is after you are Born again. So much man made doctrine on this channel. So many who do not believe the WORDS Of GOD.

[jeremywalker]

Our free acts are logically prior to God’s foreknowledge, even though God’s knowledge of our free acts is chronologically prior to their taking place.

[bobfree]

Man is spirtually dead, as God said that in the Garden, but God had a redemptive plan and its called THE GOSPEL. So He chose 1 Nation Israel to bring that News to all people. If God chose or elected a select amount of people for Salvation before he even made man as most calvanists say, then why send christ to die, give us the Gospel, and inspire a Bible, . why not just create an elect amount and thats that.what is the Purpose to Create man Knowing all would sin, decree all of it an send the vast amount to hell forever for something that He decreed to happen.AND cavanists admit that GOD could have Saved all if He chose .You see the whole calvanistic thought is Senseless.Not one time in ALL his Writings did Calvin Ever mentionGOD is Love!! i wonder why?

[perrywharton]

In Acts 19:2 the Bible says, And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” Since the premise is regeneration comes before faith, how can they believe without knowing about the Holy Spirit? Can one be regenerated without the Holy Spirit? Is regeneration even necessary in order to believe?

[todpower]

I love you bro .I'm a Evangelist for are church in Wakefield Quebec Canada have a video on YouTube source of power todpower freedom from sexual sin ..but anyway the way for even victory over certain sins that have the ability to overtake or ensnare us you have to exercise faith get the word into your heart renew your mind....we appropriate God's power by believing his participate with the holy spirit being fully convinced that what he promised he was able to perform....their was a person who had phoned in on John Macarthur sermons won day asking him earnestly how to get victory over sexual sin because he was preaching on it but he could not give him the proper meaning biblically for freedom why because they believe it's all up to God to free you...but we are called to believe that our response and exercise faith in the truth of scripture and by faith receive the implanted word .like Abraham we participate with the holy spirit being fully convinced that what he promised he was able to perform....love your stand...

[JohnQPublic]

Rough Outline of the Ordo Salutis of Salvation: [01] Every person ever born is drawn by the calling ministry of the Holy Spirit.

[02] The calling ministry of the Holy Spirit takes on whatever form is necessary to appeal to the understanding of the specific individual. It could be something so simple as the rustling of the wind.

[03] As a rule, the calling ministry of the Holy Spirit is an ongoing process.

[04] Man either responds positively and believes, or man responds negatively and rejects, the calling of the Holy Spirit and denies YHVH and Christ.

[05] Belief leads to love for HIM and Him and love for HIM and Him leads to faith.

[06] Faith leads to repentance, confession and baptism.

[07] Mans love, faith, repentance and confession activates GODs promise/new covenant/New Testament with man.

[08] A lifelong renewal of regeneration begins.

[09] When a man has successfully run the race by spending his life in faith and dies in faith, and does not abandoned his love and faith, it is to be expected that GOD will honor HIS promise/covenant/gospel and save the individual.

[10] Salvation never takes place until we stand before the White Throne on the Day of Judgment.

[JohnQPublic]

This was a fascinating discussion from start to finish.