Part 2: Responding To John Piper | Regeneration Precedes Faith? (With Dr. Leighton Flowers)

Part 2 of my conversation about Calvinism with Dr. Leighton Flowers where we discuss a quote from John Piper of Desiring God where he argues that faith is a "decisive power" and therefore it is necessary that regeneration precedes faith.

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[seanvann]

Such a blessing to see you both collaborating together. I know it will strengthen both of your faiths and ministries.

God bless and thanks!!

[elaineauo]

Knew it would be fire. 🔥 and it was! Isn’t God’s Word soooo good!? God bless you two brothers! Spreading the Good News that is available for ALL people

[elaineauo]

Yay!! Part 2. Been waiting for this one to drop!

[IknowGodsLove]

If we know good from evil then we can choose good or evil.

[birajsatapathy]

Just pray for them 🙏
Now They are facing very dengerous situation!!

Just pray for them !

[IknowGodsLove]

We all chose to think and behave differently

[IknowGodsLove]

Gen 3:22
Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like One ofUs, to know good and evil.

[brentonstanfield]

At 26:00 there is a discussion of “trust”. Yes, we say the man who is not born again cannot put their trust in God, because they do not want to. They want to put their trust in things they can control… things they can see… or just in themselves. They CANNOT because they WILL NOT.

The Bible does talk about faith in this way. It speaks of it as a gift, as fruit of the Spirit, as the testimony OF GOD in the heart. His Spirit produces it in us. As Leighton said at about 26:50… faith is PROOF. It is God’s evidence that He is saving us.

[eugenejoseph]

When I got saved on September 25th, 1985, I was very emotional. In 2023, nearing my 65th birthday, I'm still very emotional about God's grace and love for me still! There must be something wrong with me!

[larrybedouin]

Our faith is wrought in our deeds.

Abraham would not have agreed to sacrifice Isaac without first having faith in God.

[SSNBN]

Since childhood, I pursued my own lusts and desires. As I became more and more selfish and bold, negative consequences began to build socially, legally and in a gnawing conscience. In response, I decided, over-and-over, to fix myself by altering my behavior. Once the trouble was escaped, or with time lessened from memory, I returned to the pattern of sin that had been destroying me. Through trial and error, I came to the end of myself, helpless and hopeless of effecting any permanent fix for right living. Jesus was waiting there, through the bible I frequently read, but couldn't live up to.

Like the Roman Catholicism of my mother, Calvinism's claim that repenting (changing one's behavior so as to not sin) and performance of good works as the way one proves salvation, is what drove me away from God in the first place. Tried as I could, there was not enough good in me to live a righteous life. Jesus Christ is the perfect man, the ONLY one who conquered sin. Put your trust in Him; His Spirit will sanctify you.

Matthew 9:12-13 NASB95
But when Jesus heard this, He said, "It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick.

[13] But go and learn what this means: 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE, ' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

[michealmatt]

? What does it mean to be image bearers/imagers (imagers-Michael Heiser) We bare His likeness, to focus in on, ponder what it means to bare His image and likeness, should not make us man centered. As imagers in the Garden of Eden we were given a trust choice, an allegiance choice, a faith choice, to trust what God said and not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Could it be that every human from birth, because we are made in His image, has the God given ability to respond to there maker?

[brentonstanfield]

At 19:42, Leighton says that God is 100% the decisive cause of salvation… but then he admits that your salvation ultimately DEPENDS on your choice which you are 100% responsible for, and by “responsible” he means “the agent of cause for” apart from anything God does or does not do. That doesn’t appear to work.

You can say, God gets all of the glory for everything that happens before your moment of decision, and all the glory for everything that comes after IF YOU CHOOSE HIM, but he cannot be the 100% decisive cause of your salvation because it ultimately depends on your choice.

[classact]

I listened to an older video of Paul Washer explaining election to a young man. He said that if the concept of unconditional election weren’t on the table, and God were to come to Earth and freely offer salvation to everyone, then everyone would turn around and walk away to hell. Why? Because men hate God due to their depravity and want nothing to do with Him. Any thoughts?

[ManassehJones]

5:01 Leighton says, quote: "If you suppress the truth, guess what, you are to blame for suppresing that truth, you could've done otherwise."

Imagine wanting to be judged by God on this teaching? "I chose you, God." "I didn't have to chose you, but I did."

That's freightening. Lord have mercy.

Every time Leighton tries teaching soteriology or biblical Truth, he proves that utter and total depravity is 100% word. If Gods effectual grace doesn't visit him, and he is simply going through the wilderness experience and in the process of being saved, his ministry proves Romans 9:17 to the letter.

[JStevensdk]

Stating again, Calvinism hinges on total inability. If total Inability is refuted then the entire system falls.

John 3:17 states Kosmos (all of humanity) Sozo subjunctive mood (has the ability possibility and potentiality to believe and be saved).

Still waiting for Flowers or anyone to get this out to more people. The only response Calvinist's can do is deny the consistent translation of Kosmos or other claims of false translation.

[ChristianOkafor-wu]

Yes ...dead people are unwilling to come to christ...John 5:39-40

[josephalvinalmedatv]

Piper, White, Sproul, Mcarthur, etc are not stupid. They allow scriptures to speak without imposing human logic. The fundamental difference is, is saving faith produced by the flesh alone or a gift granted. God is the ultimate cause not libertarian philosophy. FAith is a gift granted phil 1:29, 1 peter 1:1.

[markshaneh]

Awesome, do you have a link for part 1.
✌🏼

[brentonstanfield]

It’s fascinating. At about 15:00 Leighton is responding to Piper’s quote about the depth of our sin, and he says that we are so much more “culpable” on the libertarian free will view. I disagree with that, but what is interesting about it is this:

1. He thinks we are CULPABLE and obviously terrible sinners for rejecting the Gospel.

2. But he also holds that accepting and believing the Gospel has “no” merit and isn’t even really “a work” at all.

Do you see the disjunction? If believing is not a praiseworthy thing. If it isn’t a “good thing” that pleases God, then you can’t make unbelief an “evil thing” that displeases God. You remove culpability by denying that faith or unbelief are reciprocal moral acts. Thus the “boasting”, eg “You don’t believe by your libertarian free will… you are REALLY REALLY BAD… meanwhile, I believed and so I am not as bad as you.” See the problem? But if we are both sinners and the only difference between the sinner and me is God’s grace, then there is no boasting.

Further, if you can’t explain why someone accepts or rejects something, then it’s impossible to say anything about their goodness or badness. Libertarian free will can’t explain why people make choices.

Meanwhile, when we understand the Biblical view, we see that men make choices based on what is in their heart:

Luke 6:43-45: [N]o good tree bears bad fruit, nor again does a bad tree bear good fruit, for each tree is known by its own fruit. For figs are not gathered from thornbushes, nor are grapes picked from a bramble bush. The good person out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure produces evil, for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.

It is the content of the heart that determines what we choose. Without the Spirit, we cannot please God because we do not want to… we are literally “god-less”. With the Spirit filling our heart, we desire to believe and serve.