Calvinism Is Not True

Jordan Hatfield make a case for why Calvinism is not true based on the concept of union with Christ.

With Tyler Fowler @FaithUnaltered, Lucas Curcio @methodministries, and Leighton Flowers @Soteriology101

Watch more from Jordan on this topic:

Is Calvinism biblical? Watch more of my videos answering Calvinism here:

Is Calvinism Biblical with Leighton Flowers / Soteriology 101

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#calvinism #soteriology #biblestudy

[KISStheSON...]

Unfortunately, Calvinism makes one believe that Ephesians 1 says, "According as he hath chosen us (TO BE) in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:" However it is more accurate to understand it as to say, "According as he hath chosen us (who are now) in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"...Paul is explaining that God chose those of us who are now IN Christ RATHER THAN those who are UNDER the law...the message is to persuade those who are UNDER the law to come out from under the law and come IN Christ THROUGH faith in His righteousness that is not our own.

[TheRomansGuy]

3:45 Except, what Paul is talking about in Ephesians 1 is that all of the blessings that used to have been thought of as only applying to the Jews, through their being chosen through their ancestors, it has now been revealed have also come to all the Gentiles through being adopted into God's family through Christ. Paul is teaching that the blessings are available to all people. That's one of his main points.

[ByGracethroughFaithEph..]

What a blessing to have the true and inspiring word of God.

2 Timothy 1:9
[9] [u] who saved us and [v] called us to(1) a holy calling, [w] not because of our works but because of [v] his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus [x] before the ages began,

Footnotes

(1) Or with


Cross-references

[u]: 1 Tim 1:1; Titus 3:4
[v]: Heb 3:1; Rom 8:28
[w]: Titus 3:5; Rom 3:27
[v]: Heb 3:1; Rom 8:28
[x]: Titus 1:2; Rom 16:25; Eph 1:4
(ESV)

[davevandervelde]

Defining our terms are so important. " Moderate Calvinist. " I will contact Lucas and have a discussion regarding this. I too will stand with anyone who calls out the belief that if we are determined and therefore what we do is irrelevant. That is a hyper Calvinist and someone who is actually a fatalist. I have had some exposure to this heresy and it is not good.

I have stated before that I have been reformed my entire life and never ever have I heard that my actions are not fully dependent upon my choice and the repercussions of my sin whether it be temporal or eternal, is real.

This is important since I think alot of the debate is stemming from this misinterpretation of a Calvinist position. Of which there are discrepancies between them, no doubt, as there are in any church.

Just one more point. Lucas is condemning Calvinists for using terms to describe a held position, like pelagian or semi pelagian.


This is the definition of semi pelagianism.

"Semi-Pelagianism was promulgated in the fifth century AD by John Cassian and some other church leaders in France. It took a middle-of-the-road approach to depravity; we are depraved, but not totally so. Semi-Pelagianism allows that humanity is tainted by sin, but not to the extent that we cannot cooperate with God’s grace on our own. Semi-Pelagianism is, in essence, partial depravity as opposed to total depravity. We are sinful, but we can still recognize the truth, cooperate with God’s grace, and choose to seek Christ. We need God’s grace to be saved, but we can take the first step toward Christ on our own, apart from grace."

This is YOUR STATED POSITION. So yes I will throw out the term semi pelagian to describe you Lucas. And you also start with many presuppositions so please give me a break.

[ByGracethroughFaithEph..]

It's a blessing we can use God’s word and have the true and inspiring word of God
We read it in Ephesians 1 snd 2

Ephesians 1:4
[4] [h] even as he [i] chose us in him [j] before the foundation of the world, that we should be [k] holy and blameless before him In love

Cross-references
[h]: Eph 2:10; 2 Thess 2:13; 1 Pet 1:2
[i]: Jas 2:5; Deut 7:6; Deut 26:18
[j]: 2 Tim 1:9; Mt 13:35
[k]: Eph 5:27; Col 1:22; 1 Thess 4:7
(ESV)

Ephesians 2:8

[8]For [z] by grace you have been saved [a] through faith. And this is [b] not your own doing; [c] it is the gift of God,

Cross-references
[z]: Eph 2:5
[a]: 1 Pet 1:5; Rom 4:16
[b]: 2 Cor 3:5
[c]: Jn 4:10; Heb 6:4
(ESV)

[ByGracethroughFaithEph..]

It's a blessing we have God's true and inspiring word.

Proverbs 16:9
[9] [y] The heart of man plans his way,
but [z] the LORD establishes his steps.

Cross-references
[y]: Prov 16:1; Prov 19:21
[z]: Prov 20:24; Ps 37:23; Jer 10:23
(ESV)

[LovesHugItOut]

Jesus gave a litmus test when He said “yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me.“
‭‭John‬ ‭16‬:‭2‬-‭3‬

John Calvin and associates did not know The Father or Jesus. They were not Christians.


God gives us another litmus test in Galatians 1:6-10

”I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.“
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭1‬:‭6‬-‭10‬ ‭

The litmus test is that if *anyone* perverts the gospel of the apostles and are therefore preaching a different gospel (that is no gospel because there is only 1 and only 1 is good news!) they are accursed. And we are instructed by God to *let them* be accursed. And we are further rebuked for NOT doing this in 2 Corinthians 11:4


Calvinism isn’t just “oh but no one has perfect theology.” That would be like saying to someone who gets abused by their husband “oh well no one has a perfect marriage.” Anyone who preaches total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, perseverance of the saints, prefaith regeneration, and determinism is preaching a DIFFERENT GOD and DIFFERENT GOSPEL and IS NOT CHRISTIANITY. This isn’t about “oh well no one has perfect theology.”

[ironleatherwood]

Why don't we just say clearly that Calvinist preach a different gospel. Similar to the Mormons, JW, and anybody that follows a human. Calvin is a human who is no different than Joseph Smith. God bless you

[lawrencestanley]

Non-Calvinism Is Not True.

Every Christian was created “in Christ, ” chosen before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4, 2:10), called as “a chosen race, a royal priesthood” (1 Peter 2:9, cf. Hebrews 5:4), and was also “in Christ” as our federal head and representative when He died and rose again (Romans 6:1–14; Colossians 2:12; 3:1–2).

In Ephesians 1, Paul uses the phrase "in Christ, " and "in Him" to refer to the sphere into which God’s blessing and choosing takes place, that is, based on the person and work of Christ, God has both blessed and chosen individuals. This meaning is more apparent in verses 19-20 where the phrase “in Christ” is shown specifically to be the sphere of God’s operation. Paul again uses this concept in Romans 5 to talk about the representative nature of the headship of Christ over those who are His.

According to 1 Corinthians 1:9, those whom the Father has given to the Son (John 6:37) are brought into union with Him when they are effectually called (cf. John 6:44, 12:32, Romans 8:28-30) and embrace Christ in faithfulness (Ephesians 1:13-14); faith being the fruit and justification (demonstration) of salvation (Galatians 5:22-23, Romans 3:28, 5:1, John 20:31).

Our faith in Him is the effect and definite result of the work of God (John 6:29, Hebrews 12:2, Philippians 1:6); it is “not of ourselves” (Ephesians 2:8-9), because it could never be (Romans 8:7); the wicked (the reprobate, those devoid of the Spirit of God, Cf. 2 Peter 2:12ff) do not even have the right to covenant with God (Psalm 50:16), therefore faith is something that the elect receive from God in time (2 Peter 1:1); only then does 1 Corinthians 1:30 become true of us: “and because of him you are in Christ Jesus.”

Essentially, faith is a product of man’s fellowship with God, and it is the means of mediation initiated by God through which the Mediator works to save those whom He has both chosen and called, bringing about our sanctification (Acts 26:18).

Think of our union with Christ as a coin with two sides. From the divine side, our union with Christ is secured by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who is the bond of that eternal union (1 Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 1:13–14). From the human side, the bond of our union with Christ is the Spirit-granted faith (Philippians 1:29, Acts 13:48) that embraces Him as He is presented to us in the gospel (cf. Acts 5:14; Romans 16:7b, Philippians 3:9).

The power (the Spirit) to believe comes from God; but the act (faith) is our act, though it is guaranteed for and given by the Lord to His elect (after all, we possess the gifts that He has given us, this includes faith).

Until the elect believe, they are outside of Christ, dead in trespasses and sins, children of wrath (Ephesians 2:1-3), and the elect must believe to enjoy the salvation that He has purchased for them (Ephesians 1:13-14, 2:8-9, Cf. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11).

[ByGracethroughFaithEph..]

The argument is " what is the sovereign and almighty God of the Bible capable of " ? And who receives God's blessings ( only those " in Christ " ) ?

Romans 9:18
[18]So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. (ESV)

The Apostle Paul received blessing before being ( in Christ).

Galatians 1:15
[15]But when he [c] who had set me apart [d] before I was born, (4) and who [e] called me by his grace,

Footnotes

(4) Greek set me apart from my mother's womb.

Cross-references
[c]: Acts 13:2; Rom 1:1
[d]: Isa 49:1, 5; Jer 1:5; Lk 1:15
[e]: Gal 1:6
(ESV)

[Elizabeth-]

What you said in the first 15 minutes is something I have been thinking about for awhile. That Calvinists in a sense believe that they receive the gift of being “chosen” outside of Christ. I mean, the gospel is clear we cannot come to the father except through Christ. But they believe, outside of Christ, being chosen by God first before even being born. Makes no sense.

[aletheia]

2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

[Jesusisking]

After literally months and months of studying Calvinism I have come to the conclusion that their view of the character of Christ is entirely different than mainstream Christianity. I believe it is their pride that blinds them to seeing the loving Savior of scripture who calls all people to come to Calvary to have their sins forgiven.

In my wildest dreams I never knew after serving the Lord for over 38 years that there was a group of people out there claiming to be Christians who literally believe that man can choose anything except Jesus and where he will spend eternity, that Jesus does not love everyone (salvation love), that Jesus did not die for everyone, and that God does not want everyone saved.

Can someone PLEASE explain how these people are truly brothers and sisters in Christ since their view of Christ is so contrary to clear biblical teaching? I just cannot wrap my brain around this.

[richardcoords]

I've observed two non-Calvinist interpretations of Ephesians 1:4.

*** 1st non-Calvinist interpretation ***

It relies on the construction of verses 3 & 4, standing on the principle of v.3 that God has predestined all spiritual blessings to be exclusive to Christians, "just as" (in v.4) God predestined Christians to receive the spiritual blessing of holiness (also as per Ephesians 5:27), and then in verses 5-14, Paul cites additional examples of God's exclusively predestined spiritual blessings for the Church. I find this to be very convincing, and it's the perspective of Jordan Hatfield in the video.

*** 2nd non-Calvinist interpretation ***

The other non-Calvinist interpretation relies on a "pronoun" to reference the Gentiles, suggesting that Paul was asserting election and predestination for himself and the apostles: "The pronouns Paul used in Ephesians reveal that the chosen and predestined people Paul wrote of were the apostles and prophets who were chosen to be eyewitnesses of Jesus and stewards of the mystery of Christ."

The 2nd interpretation overlooks the connection between v.3 and v.4, in which v.3 contains a *principle* for those "in Christ, " namely that God has predestined all spiritual blessings for believers in Christ, and then v.4 builds upon this principle by saying "just as, " and then provides an *example* of a spiritual blessing predestined in Christ for the believer, namely God's predestined spiritual blessing of holiness for Christians, just like Ephesians 5:27 states. Verse 5 adds God's predestined spiritual blessing of adoption for Christians, and v.7 is God's predestined spiritual blessing of redemption for the believer, and v.9 revelation, and v.11 inheritance, and finally v.13 the Indwelling. So, the 2nd approach ignores all of that, and instead keys on a pronoun that references the Gentiles, and then invents a theory about the apostles being elected, a point that Paul nowhere states, while ignoring what the text actually does state. Also, what can the 2nd approach make of Ephesians 1:19 which mentions "us who believe"? Will they claim that "us" reverts back to only Israel? The 2nd approach seems really convoluted, and unsupported by the actual text.

[richardcoords]

Jordan Hatfield: “God doesn’t first give us some ‘thing’ called life, He doesn’t make us alive so that then we can subsequently believe and trust in Christ and be joined to Him in a union—be baptized into Christ if you will—rather, it’s our becoming connected to Christ, our being baptized into Him, that becomes life for us, that Jesus IS the life, Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.” 6:13 – 6:42

In other words, union with Christ is the source and cause of spiritual life, and notice how well that compares with John 5:40:

“And yet you [the Pharisees] are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.”

Spiritual “life” in this context is knowing Christ in a saving relationship, whereas in Calvinism, one must already have spiritual life in order to come to know Christ, which presents a dilemma that…frankly Calvinists couldn’t care any less about because they already have an identity as “Reformed” that they covet so much.

[PsychoBible]

This perfectly aligns with what we teach in Theology of the Body. You cannot have life without union.

[johnriegle]

Calvinism asserts: Regeneration precedes Faith. Titus 3:5 plainly states We are saved THROUGH or BY Regeneration. Game over. If we are saved by Faith, how then can a man be "saved" or rather regenerated prior to Faith? Why don't you guys hammer on this? To say Regeneration precedes Faith, is the same as saying Salvation precedes Faith. Calvinists literally have a different gospel. Regeneration can not precede faith if it is the instrument or doorway through which one is saved. Ask a Calvinist how Temporal and Logical distinctions work in real time. Ask them to explain how that actually works out in reality. I have asked dozens. "how, with your soteriology does a man go from darkness to light." They have to wonder off into mystery. Why isn't Titus 3:5 EVER cited ?

[RAY_FILET]

Would you say that people following the teachings of John MacArthur, John Piper etc, are in great danger? If not, are debates like this necessary, this late in the game?

[JoelWalton-fh]

Salvation is ALL about "Life" in Him, not just forgiveness. Thanks for speaking the truth in love!🤠

[KennethSaul]

Sheesh, I didn't realize the debate is still being argued that much, and then all sorts of recent videos popped up on my feed yesterday. I am tempted to engage with many of them, but is it profitable?