Calvinism vs Arminianism: Another Way

The Calvinism vs Arminianism debate is a dead end. There is another way. In this video a Protestant pastor discusses why he is neither a Calvinist nor an Arminian.

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[jesuslovesyou]

I never considered myself calvisnists nor amininian

I only read the bible since I saved. It took me many years after I was saved to find out that Calvinism and arminianism exists

People need to let the bible speak no man

[thatwhichhasbeen-isthatwhi]

Calvinism v Arminianism: Another way? I would say yes, and that's universalism.

Peace

[murattanyel]

I think you would find that many sober Reformed (Calvinist) believers recognize the Lutheran position. I count myself among them; while I agree with the 5 points of Calvinism, I recognize that theology is a man made construct and no theology is perfect. Some things are mysteries that are not well explained by these man-made constructs. Mankind should be humble and have faith that what appears as contradictions to us are resolved in God's infinite wisdom.

[The_Anglican_Autodidact]

Story by William James: A man walks down a road, and sees two churches. One says the church of Determination, the second the Church of Free Will. He goes into the Church of Determination, and is asked why he wants to join. He answers I choose to, and is throw out. He then goes to the other Church and is asked why he wants to join. He answers because I have to, and is thrown out.

[bsimpson]

Thank you very much. I’ve been preoccupied by the debate between these two viewpoints, and all the while I’ve had the awareness that my distraction is a barrier to what is important: growing in my faith. I really appreciate your perspective. I will try to be aware that the essence of the “answer” to many conflicts is to hold many ideas and perspectives in tension.

[MrDragpics]

before the foundation of the world.and from the foundation the world.

[Gericho]

"As an former calvinist should we not listen to Jesus' actual words like John 15, 3:16, Matt 16:27? Nothing destroys OSAS, predestination sola fide like Jesus parables.e.g. If Calvinism is true, it means that God creates disposable people, people without any hope, ” “It means that God not only allows, but micro-manages and sovereignly ordains, every war and every abortion and every rape of a child. It means that Calvin’s god does not love the world; he hates it because it is full of *“totally depraved”* individuals because he apparently reated us that way for his own glorification, or is it for his amusement. If Calvinism is true, it means that if that dying child that you held in your arms was not among the elect, then God did not love her. He never had any intention of loving her. She was nothing to Him. In fact, he would delight and find glory in her eternal torture in hell.”
*Who are really created in the image of then, God or satan?*

“And whenever I raise these points with Calvinists, all they can say is that I should be more grateful for my own salvation! It’s like, ‘as long as my eternal destiny is secure, as long as my life is all planned out and taken care of by God, who gives a damn about family, friends or anyone else!’ How can you be okay with that? How can anyone be okay with that? Why do I feel find this heresy morally offensive?” Only the devil should be at ease with such an abomination!

[ofaoilleachain]

I'd ask you to put that beginning verse back in it's context. God does not desire that all as in all people on earth should be saved. All is referring to the elect, as that chapter/section is addressing believers.

[yvbdqmp]

Thank you for quietly, but firmly, challenging the false dichotomy dished up in Protestantism. Cherry picking the Bible to force Five Points or "systematic" theologies on the richness of the text is a problem. It does often do violence to the mystery, wonder and assurance of scripture.

[gilbertlillo]

"The best and infallible preparation to the grace, and the only aptitude to this grace is found in God's election and eternal predestination" M. Luther.

[bfjohnmark]

The truth is.. believe.. repent. Go and sin no more.. be holy.. live in obedience. U will fail.. continue.. go back...dont stop.. until his second coming..

[bethprather]

I've studied this recently.. I was raised Southern Baptist and my whole life have heard and witnessed church splits over predesti nation.. But Baptist do believe in 1 part for sure of perseverance of saints or truly saved people can backslide but will be pulled back. Grace is Grace not works.. I go to the Christian church now..and some things have changed put their beliefs are also not one or the other.. Same simple truth...not confusing

[deion]

Great video. I agree, the Bible teaches both! And to try to make sense of that always leads in greater confusion. I lean more Arminian, but, the Bible obviously talks about God choosing, predestining, and ordaining. So, I can't just ignore those scriptures and try to justify all of them.

[MariusVanWoerden]

Matthew 10: 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from YOUR FATHER’S WILL. Some will tell you it is the bird’s fault. But what about the greatest catastrophic event? Was God not in control of that?
Matthew 10:34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. After God created all things and God saw that it was good [perfect] God planted a tree: “The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and EVIL.” Men did not know about evil but God did.
Blasphemers are those that deny the Sovereignty of God. Iblīs was an Angel he was cast out of heaven because he argued with God why He created men who He made out of clay in His own Image with so much Glory. He said with more other angels to God: "You created them from clay and us from Fire why are we servants." we should receive more glory than they. God’s anger arose and Fire came from His Nostrils. The anger of God was never seen before. Michael and the angels on God’s side started war and threw Iblīs and his followers out of Heaven. Due to his fall from God's grace and jealousy he went to the earth to Paradise and deceived Adam and Eve to hurt God in the Crown of His creation. Iblis is often identified with Al-Shaitan ("the Devil"). The name Iblīs is derived from Ancient Greek διάβολος (diábolos). There was no Devil on day 6 when God saw that all he made was GOOD. If God did not predetermine things, God The Creator of Heaven and Earth could have thrown Iblīs In hell in the outer darkness or even destroy/ Annihilate him completely. But no God let him go to the earth take upon himself the form of a snake and deceive Eva and then Adam. God already had a plan of salvation from eternity past, that Christ our Lord would come and die for the sins of the world. The plan was not optional it was determent. When God planted the tree, God already knew that Eve would take from the fruit. God even made the fruit from that tree more attractive. It was because sin was needed for Christ to take upon Him humanity and die for the sins of the world.
Creation was not finished on the 6th day but it will be when our Lord reveals the Glorious plan when the New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven.

Joseph went to see his Brothers. What happened they were jealous of him being his dad’s favored kid. We know what happened he was sold as a slave to Egypt. He becomes the slave of Potiphar. His wife want Joseph in her bed. Joseph refusal end him up in jail where he reveals a dream and because of it he was called by pharaoh who also had a dream. He became the second ruler in Egypt. Joseph’s brothers came to Egypt because of hunger in the world. Was God in Control of that? Joseph tells his brothers Genesis 45:5 But don’t be upset. And don’t be angry with yourselves because you sold me here. God sent me ahead of you to SAVE MANY LIVES. 6 For two years now, there hasn’t been enough food in the land. It was God’s plan even the drought God could have given rain. God knew that the drought would force Jacob and his sons to Egypt and made Joseph go ahead of them. It's clear this was the plan of God! Jacob went to Egypt to move there and see Joseph again. God did NOT tell Jacob to start a mission post in Egypt. Did they not need the faith of Jacob if God wants them Saved? But instead God gave them their own territory the land of Goshen separated from the Egyptians. The Israelites became Slaves for 400 years. This the Lord already told Abraham Genesis 15:13. It was not an option it was determent and instead of doing mission they started to serve the Idols of the Egyptians. God made pharaoh affright for the Israelites [or was it not God Who controlled even the tiniest thought of the Pharaoh if He can Harden his heart?] He started to kill every boy born to the Israelites. Because of it Moses ended up with the princes of Egypt and could have all the riches of Egypt but: Hebrews 11:24 By faith Moses, when he was grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter, You get it God was in control of the weather and could have given rain so Joseph’s brothers would not have gone to Egypt. Also God did not have to send Joseph ahead. Pharaoh’s heart would not have been hardened and all first born in Egypt who did not know the left from the right hand not have died. All the calamities in the desert would not have happened. From the almost 2 Million people that left Egypt very few and only those born after leaving Egypt entered the promised land. What about all the first born in Egypt who died because God hardened the heart of Pharaoh. All the army of pharaoh drowned in the red sea without the Gospel. And the order of the Lord to kill each other after worship of the Golden Calf. 3, 000 were killed by sword instead of a temporary punishment to give them time to repent and being forgiven. This worship was because they went to Egypt were they learned serving Idol gods. Was that a good reason for God to let them kill each other? Or did God not have to give an account to anyone for what He does?

Daniel 4: 34 At the end of the days I, Nebuchadnezzar, lifted my eyes to heaven, and my reason returned to me, and I blessed the Most High, and praised and honored him who lives forever, for his dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom endures from generation to generation; 35 all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, and he does according to his will among the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand or say to him, “What have you done?” It is time for Leighton to come to this same conclusion

Joseph being sold to Egypt and Just a period of drought created all this. Everything was God’s plan. All God’s thoughts and degrees are from eternity.

If God is Confused then Arminian Leighton and the other Palagians or semi Palagians are Right. If God is the All Glorious Lord Creator and the Alpha and the Omega the Begin of all things and the Ruler of all the earth and Do whatever him pleases. Better remember what Happened to Iblīs I say Iblīs and not Lucifer because that is the King Of Babylon and a wrong translation of the word Morning Star. While all is translated in English it is left in Latin.

Revelation 20: 1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more.

Revelation 20:7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan WILL BE released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. “WILL BE” means it will happen BECAUSE of God’s Decree.
Why now release Satan to deceive the nations?

This lifetime is short and Hell is forever. Would you rather be presumptuous and not find out the truth.

…Then the righteous will answer him, saying, “Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?” And the King will answer them, “Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.” (Matthew 25:37-40) those being Saved by grace did not know that what they did that pleased God. They knew themselves to be undeserving sinners. Only on the day the New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven we sure will know 2 things <1> It was grace and grace alone I would have chosen dead if it would have been up to me. <2> What God our Lord did was the MOST perfect plan men could never even imagine before it was revealed in Eternity.

What about 70 Million Buddhists in Thailand. 93% in Thailand are Buddhists and 5.5% Islam. Why??? If God wants all men to be saved, did God fail to bring the gospel there so they could chose to be Christian or Buddhist? One born into Buddhism has no choice but Buddhism, Only the conviction by The Holy Spirit can change hearts.

[hannahg]

Thank you so much for making this video! It’s helped me tremendously and given me peace of mind and heart.

[saludanite]

john Piper asserts that the Holy Spirit is the Author of the scriptures.
Then we should not be surprised at what we find written
in the last verse of each gospel and the Book of Acts.

[carlosreira]

Oh, it's like Ford vs Chevy. Or more correctly General Motors vs. Pontiac. Arminius was a Calvinist. What difference does it make if he spun off on his own. Didn't everyone? Don't they still?

1st John 2:2, ("He is our propitiation...not for our sins only but...the whole world.") that leaves TU IP. *

Prevenient grace, sure. That's 2 Peter 3:9, "...not willing that any should perish..." That leaves T IP.

Total depravity? Not according to St. Paul: "God intended that we should seek him and perhaps reach out to Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us." (Acts 17:28)

And then there were 2. (IP)

Irresistible grace? Maybe, it sure sounds nice, but St. Paul says: "And I was not disobedient to that heavenly vision." And again, "I worked harder than all of them, but not I, the grace of God in me..." (1st Corinthians 15:10) So, sure, who can resist the will of God and his love? But it doesn't mean what the Calvinists say. Here Paul is affirming grace to be divine EMPOWERMENT to service, not the ability to come to the cross to receive forgiveness of sins, something which Paul affirms to be an open invitation, but not an automatic, gravitational thing, so I'm going with P.

so...Perserverance. I'm afraid this means "quiescently frozen, " but I like it as a slogan: "Perservere, saints!"

Yeah, so that makes me a one pointer. How about you out there?

Good job to this patient soft-spoken brother for offering a more sound perspective than our American Puritan inheritance left us.

(Around 10:00 the Pastor shows you what lengths the Calvinist will go to twist "the whole world" to mean "some" of the whole world, or many, or few. Only the Sovereign Lord knows what their thinking is. John Owen stated quite bravely that "pantos" (Greek for "all" meant "many" here as it does in other passages, depending on context. But he didn't bother to explain how "many" were atoned for, yet "few" chosen. He may have actually his upon something here, but that wasn't his point, which was to diminish the atonement to a limited one. I point it out, if anyone has followed me this far--some, like Paul, and the Apostles for that matter, have no choice but to come. The "many" are "called, " invited.)

[mannycano]

There is also the "Provisionalist" position

[dreamweaver]

Thank you for sharing this other option! God's ways are truly above ours and we should leave it at that and trust Christ.

[truth]

When parents brought their children to Jesus, the disciples told Jesus to send those snot nosed children away.

Jesus looked into the crowd, saw the 3 elect children and told them to send the 297 other children away. Right!?!

Not at all. He told them to forbid them not and blessed them ALL.

Why would He do that if Calvinism were even 1% true?

TRUTH IN LOVE