Why Narcissists Lack Empathy

In this video, Dr. Ettensohn outline 4 reasons why empathy may be impaired in pathological narcissism and NPD:

1. Lack of self awareness
2. Objectification of the self and others
3. A 'starvation mindset'
4. Avoidant attachment styles

References:
Ettensohn, M. D. (2013). The relational roots of narcissism: Exploring relationships between attachment style, acceptance by parents and peers, and measures of grandiose and vulnerable narcissism. Dissertation Abstracts International: Section B: The Sciences and Engineering, 73(10-B(E)).

[healnpd]

I will remove comments that are abusive to any individual (including myself) or population. This includes comments that are abusive toward pwNPD.

[brendacarey]

The narc may be drowning and pulling others down with them to survive however in my experience the narc is the one that capsizes the boat, pulls everyone down and walks away with no remorse while blaming the people they drown for the whole mess.

[collinr]

Would love to see a video on the difference between narcissist who grew up in an abusive home and those who were overly praised.

[artbygilik]

The ones I met seemed miserable with a fragile ego but on the outside they are appearing outgoing and charming. They can dish the criticism and insults but they can’t handle being on the receiving end. Life is so much more peaceful after blocking these individuals from coming back.

[mama]

I’m 67 year old and have wondered why I initially have good relationships with people. There is mutual liking of each other and then I do something to sabotage the relationship and end the relationship. As a result I now have very few relationships and am very lonely and feel bad about myself. Having surmised “people don’t like me.” Your video has shone a bright light into understanding myself. I have an avoidant fearful attachment style. Having had 2 narcissists for parents that might explain how I developed a less than ideal attachment style. It’s gratifying to finally have an understanding of my behavior that has baffled me all of my life. Both of my narc parents had a lot of friends. I am not narcissistic and I have avoided having relationships despite wanting people in my life.

[julielesemann]

I like how you recognize the human in the person with NPD, I think society tends to forget people with NPD are human first because they become unrecognizable to us because of their detachment from their self. I was raised by three caregivers with NPD and It's important for my healing that I understand my caregivers distress in order to let go of my pain. Watching your perspective has allowed me to humanize them instead of seeing them as monsters.

[jonanon]

The drowning analogy is accurate.
Throw them a life preserver, but whatever you do stay away from someone who is drowning or they will pull you under and both lives lost.
Are they evil? That depends on your definition of evil - maybe evil can be defined as someone who is "drowning" and pulling others under trying to save themselves.
Maybe most of us would be evil if we were "drowning" too.
Being a Victim does not nullify being a Perpetrator. It may be the reason why they are a Perpetrator, but they are still a Perpetrator.

[i.ehrenfest]

I am relieved to hear this explanation.

Dr Ramani’s videos, and those of others, have helped me. I’ve suffered quite a bit of abuse in my childhood, and I think it may have been narcissistic abuse. Throughout, I’ve felt the vulnerability and wounds of these people. That led me to be too understanding and forgiving. Videos and books like those of dr Ramani and others have finally helped me see that something is really going on, there’s a genuine disorder, it’s not going to change, and I have a right to move away from that.

On the other hand I’ve been quite confused, over the many years of reading about narcissism, about the attitude with which narcissists are treated. It’s an “us and them” thing. They’re portrayed as bad people with no redeeming qualities - and if you’re too nuanced in your viewpoints, you can easily get accused of being an enabler. I do see that that risk exists.

But in the people that abused me (including quite a bit of physical violence) I never saw the cold, calculating individuals that the books and experts spoke of. I know they exist. But they were not my family members. My family members lashed out sharply and damaged me quite severely, but not because they were evil geniuses. They are troubled.

The worst of them, it’s true, isn’t all THAT troubled. But even as a child I knew she wasn’t acting from strength, just from a kind of primitive, troubled feeling. I will never have contact with her again because she’s just too destructive, but I don’t see a demonic human being. I see tragedy. In her own upbringing, and just possibly some brain damage from a fall.

One huge danger from the antagonistic approach is that, in the worst cases, people are encouraged to lash back out at the narcissist. Just look at the countless posts on Quora about how to get back at the narcissist. These posts, with thousands of upvotes, are filled with people who are extremely resentful about what happened to them, feel that the other person was 100% to blame and should be punished. Well, what sort of person is especially attracted to such a worldview? Right, the narcissist. I am convinced that many people who comment on that sort of post and see themselves as victims of narcissistic abuse in their marriages were in fact themselves the narcissist. The anger and vindictiveness are frightening. I’m reminded of a documentary about a murderer who bonded with his latest victim over…their bad former marriages, and how he was allegedly treated badly by his ex-wife who even cheated on him. In reality, the ex wife had long been trying to get away from him and was seeing someone knew. He murdered her. Then he bonded with a new woman over both having been victimised by their exes. And then he murdered her, too. So yes, I get very uneasy when I see excessively vindictive victimhood. No disrespect meant to people who have been genuinely victimised and are understandably deeply angered. I hope I’m making myself clear.

I believe my sister is narcissistic, and after many decades of hurtful interaction I want to change our relationship or sever it. I’m not helped by people who underestimate narcissism and preach healing and forgiveness and so push me back into the damaging interaction. But I’m also not helped by people who paint a black and white picture in which my sister is some kind of demon - she is not, she’s someone who hurts very much, but doesn’t want to talk about it and has to elevate herself above her loved ones in order to feel good about herself. And I have often hurt her, if not in the same way. Confronted with the abusive actions I’ve been withdrawing, rigid. I didn’t know how else to deal with it.

She and I are not demon vs saint. We’re both deeply damaged from our childhood. She’s used me a lot to take out her anger on, and I need to get out of that. I don’t think it will ever change. But she’s not a cold hearted person who uses her empathy against others. Yes, she can spot the weaknesses in those around her with lightning speed, and will taunt you with them. But why? Because she’s got those weaknesses, too, but doesn’t want to see them.

In short - I don’t know how to move on from here, but demonisation isn’t going to help. And is reminiscent of how borderlines were demonised until recently - when now, they’re suddenly seen as a group that has a very good prognosis with treatment. Demonisation is no good. It’s what narcissists do.

[Mom_Luvs_Tech]

This, all of this. I’ve noticed the trifecta of core wounds in narcissists: abandonment, unworthy, rejection.
The unworthy wound is the core shame.
The rejection causes them to be defensive and use control dramas.
And the abandonment wound causes them to live in deep fear and create a false self, perfectionist tendencies, lie and manipulate.
These wounds consume them (drown them) so they cannot escape the grip.
I believe the treatment of these 3 through several therapies and the practice of radical honesty and vulnerability that many NPD symptoms go away.
They can replace their thoughts with “I matter and you matter.” “I’m okay and you’re okay.”

[teresa-to]

Both my parents and 2 siblings have many traits of NPD. I've watched thousands of videos and don't believe any of the experts are wrong. I finally decided that it didn't really matter why they treated me like they did... but just focus on healing myself and not try to fix or understand them. I don't want to be an expert on NPD, I just want to focus on healing my pain it caused and figure out how to escape the roll of family scapegoat. I'm 64 and just learning how to love myself and not allow others to mistreat me anymore...

[PutingPinoy]

I am REALLY glad that your channel is finally getting traction. Let's get that collab going and I'll make sure awareness about you skyrockets.
-J

[gretapantophlet]

For whatever reason, I see and can agree with your videos. I think people have been hurt so bad by narcissist, that they can’t have any compassion nor understanding for the disorder. Thanks for sharing !

[jds]

My mother I have finally figured out is a narcissist and she has zero empathy. I had a very close personal friend (more than that actually) passed away unexpectedly. My sister that lives near me came to his celebration of life service with her husband. My other sister watched the service being live streamed on facebook. My mother never asked about his service at all. When my sister and her husband went to visit my mom a couple of weeks after the service, my mother never once asked about his service, never once asked about my friend and never once asked how I was doing. Yet she always likes to tell me "I love you with all of my heart". I received more empathy from my coworkers and my next door neighbor than my mother is capable of giving. The only love that I have ever felt from my mother is a very superficial love based on her being in control.

[Wavicle]

So much this! My wife is a covert narcissist. It is very difficult being with her, and overall not healthy for me, but I can see that she isn't acting with malicious intent. She is a collection of very anti-social behavior patterns that were developed as a survival mechanism during an extremely unhealthy and traumatic upbringing.

A few days ago while she was recounting her experiences that day, I received a notification and checked my phone to learn that a former coworker who I had worked closely with for several years had passed away. I was emotionally floored; it took me out of the moment immediately. I told my wife that my former coworker had passed and that I was not okay with it and she promptly.... continued telling me about her day. I needed empathy or if not that just a little time not being chatted to, but she didn't pick up on it. It wasn't that she was malicious and "just didn't care"; it was more like she "just didn't realize that this was a situation where one should care". She is deeply broken, and my codependent self feels absolutely awful for her. She does many wicked, nasty things and is completely oblivious to the damage these things do. She doesn't give true empathy - she does some kind of performance art empathy that looks kind of like the real thing, but just doesn't *feel* like the real thing.

[f.frederickskitty]

I'll never forget the day I was horrified to discover the person I had called my best friend for several years was a narcissist and a bully who had emotionally sucked me dry like a vampire. I'll also add that I realized that she had been my best friend but I was not her's. Although we still work together I vanished like Harry Houdini and still maintain a safe distance for my mental health.

[Antonocon]

This is brilliant. I think you are very much on to something here. I'll read your dissertation later in the week when I have time. My mother and brother are vulnerable narcissists and my father would be considered a malignant narcissist at best and very much a borderline sociopath, I would say, if tested. Religion kept that group together. If you think this sounds highly unlikely, just imagine every moment of every day being a screaming match that you could hear from about 6 houses away on our road. I stayed away as much as possible as a kid and moved out very young. My father really does not understand other people's emotions at all. He's trapped with a 3 year old's emotional intelligence but in a very powerful body. I really thought he was like an alien when I was young, I met nobody like him, nor saw them on TV. I'm very very far away from all of them now but I understand that they were all quite traumatised as children. Me too, thank god I had neighbours to hang out with.

[ASoulHere]

Your perspective is so helpful. This description of narcissism from the individuals internal perspective is something we all can relate to in varying degrees. I bet the degree to which we relate is directly correlated to the amount of narcissistic traits we display. Rendering us all the same, just different levels/degrees of the same characteristics. That’s a much healthier perspective on narcissism than the one that is present in society today.

Looking at this in a new way helps me a lot. I’ve gone round and round on all of this. I feel I’m finally getting somewhere in understanding myself, others and how life operates.

Almost all of us are all wounded just in different ways.

We all have some sort of injury/lack to self that prevent us from growing up/fully internal locus of control/agency. Those are the differences among us when you get down to it.

[inkihans]

This is very compassionate view. Thank you for sharing . Even though we need to be aware that some people cannot love, they deserve compassion. We all do . And with self compassion we can feel it for others without remaining an "en-abler".

[weaviejeebies]

I literally just found your channel today and am working my way through your content. One thing I want to add about "intentional bad actors" is the sadism assumption in particular. To me it seems like that is an attribute that lives more into the ASPD part of the cluster. My father was incarcerated and diagnosed with ASPD and NPD. (3 different doctors, forensic psych said ASPD, the VA doc said NPD, the state hospital doc said both, long story....) Having been his child, his victim, survivor, witness in his trial, and cptsd patient trying to make sense of it all, I think I have a pretty good picture of now the subtle differences of the more antisocial attributes as opposed to boundary issues and shallow smarm I've encountered in other narcissistic, but not antisocial people I've met in life. I think the sadism quotient in an individual is really important to spot accurately and be well educated on, and both things are not widespread skills in society, unfortunately. People on the receiving end of all these offensive behaviors might attribute the cyclic nature of splitting as proof the person is enjoying themselves. Because people w/NPD can frankly just be scary because of the way they can turn on a dime and don't appear to be living in shared reality, those who have been mistreated inflate them into being more smart/powerful than they actually are. Many of my friends in the cptsd community see narcissistic manipulation as some kind of sophisticated 'puppet master' mentality or evil superpower, when it might actually be some of the most primitive, badly planned, and duct tape/band aid coping there is to engage in. But having been there myself, I think that is a very natural assumption after being exposed to a confusing, hurtful agressor who is capriciou, reckless, and just...weird. It took me a long time to see manipulation as just their go-to because it can get immediate results and restore control. My father's sadism vs his manipulative strategies are way different in appearance. He is, unfortunately, one of that small percentage of people Dr. Ramani's description applies to. I am not sure people are familiar with what someone with sadism as one of their primary motivations looks like. I'm not trying to belittle others' experiences. People w/NPD are capable of causing others excruciating pain and trauma that no one should ever have to endure. It's just that for many narcissists, the 'why' behind their behavior is way more about meeting the need of the moment, whatever that need is. Your suffering is just a necessary byproduct that is fairly easy for them to forget as their constantly auto-redacting personal narrative moves on. Yeah, they might feel "look at me, I won! I showed them who's smarter, better, the boss, etc, but again it's a byproduct, not the objective. An antisocial sadist (or at least the only one I know personally) digs your pain because the need of the moment is to feel something. That is what they came to you for. It makes them come alive and display a kind of affective change that is only attainable to them via controlling someone to an extreme degree and seeing how the person is desperate to escape.
So I'm very interested in watching more of your content to see if my armchair theories have any veracity. If you haven't done a deep dive on the twilight zone where ASPD and NPD run together, I encourage you to do so. Sorry for the essay, y'all, but the guy just died and I'm reacting by splattering my insights all over YouTube. Indulge me, please. 🙏

[debrabrookham]

No matter how you want to describe them they have the same result on their victims. They destroy them emotionally and physically. Escape if you can!