John Piper Is Wrong About Calvinism

[robertvnava]

You’re overthinking what he’s saying. Let's flip it… let’s say God didn’t know we’d turn to Christ. There’s way more problems with that statement. All Piper is saying is that God knew from the beginning who would be His. Refute that with scripture.

[samueltorres]

Jordan,

As a brother in Christ, do not waste your life attacking the views of strong brothers in the faith who are preaching faithfully. Adjust your time to the lost.

Sam

[janareaves]

God said He knew us before the foundation of the world. That’s God’s words not Pipers.

[johncmeade]

Thanks, but I will just keep on believing the Bible. " For he chose us in him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight." Ephesians 1:3

[robertvnava]

The fact that you’d even argue that God didn’t know who was His says a lot.

[Tigerex]

To john piper predestination saves not christ there is no need for jesus or repenting or for satan forgiving resurrection..
As predestination saves not jesus.
Thats a lie.

[ethanlash]

The people who are elect still needed saved, doesn’t matter if God had it in his mind already. Colossians 1:21-22, you were once alienated from God. The elect were just as lost brother. I’m sure Piper can further defend that position.

[alwaysredirect]

Brother, there's nothing wrong with what JP said according to Romans 9. You took it in the direction you want to justify your own understanding. At least give us a Bible verse that supports your reasoning

[cecilspurlockjr.]

It was accomplished in THE MIND OF GOD from the beginning, but not in the gnostic way that calvinism presents . GOD knows all things from beginning to end but not in the gnostic way of determinism that calvinism portrays.
Thanks brother.
GOD bless you

[primeobjective]

"No one comes to the Father except through me, unless you are a Calvinist. Then, yes, your union with me was accomplished in the mind of the Father, before creation."

[gavinwatkins]

Amazes me how people strive to fit God in their human brain. Dude stop trying to figure God out and just enjoy Him

[yeahthatenouemy]

Either you're unaware you're employing a straw man argument, or you're employing subtly and with malicious intent. Either way, not a good job. John Piper did not say what you've accused him of saying, not in the clip you provided, or ever.

[carterwoodrow]

That is not what piper is saying he is saying that In the mind of God the elects salvation was already finished that doesn't mean that they were not in need of salvation

[PettyFranceSaints]

Calvinism, and Piper, do not teach the elect are always in Christ and never seperated from God. The plan was before time began, but it wasn't accomplished until time and space (Jesus death and the elect's faith). I really wish this guy would stop leading people to think calvinism teaches what it doesn't teach.

[gregorylatta]

Knowing and causing are two different things.

[lawrencestanley]

Every Christian was created in Christ, chosen before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4, 2:10) called as “a chosen race, a royal priesthood” (1 Peter 2:9, cf. Hebrews 5:4), and was also in Christ as our federal head and representative when He died and rose again (Romans 6:1–14; Colossians 2:12; 3:1–2).

According to 1 Corinthians 1:9, those whom the Father has given to the Son (John 6:37) are brought into union with Christ when they are effectually called (cf. John 6:44) and embrace Christ by faith; faith being the fruit and justification of salvation (Galatians 5:22-23, Romans 3:28, 5:1, John 20:31). Our faith in Him is the effect and definite result of the work of God (John 6:29, Hebrews 12:2, Philippians 1:6); it is “not of ourselves” (Ephesians 2:8-9), because it could never be (Romans 8:7); the wicked do not even have the right to covenant with God (Psalm 50:16), therefore faith is something that we receive from God (2 Peter 1:1); only then does 1 Corinthians 1:30 become true of us: “and because of him you are in Christ Jesus.”

Essentially, faith is a product of man’s fellowship with God, and it is the means of mediation initiated by God through which the Mediator works to save those whom He has both chosen and called, bringing about our sanctification (Acts 26:18).

Think of our union with Christ as a coin with two sides. From the divine side, our union with Christ is secured by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who is the bond of that eternal union (1 Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 1:13–14). From the human side, the bond of our union with Christ is the Spirit-granted faith (Philippians 1:29, Acts 13:48) that embraces Him as He is presented to us in the gospel (cf. Acts 5:14; Romans 16:7b, Philippians 3:9).

The power (the Spirit) to believe comes from God; but the act (faith) is our act, though it is guaranteed for and given by the Lord to His elect. Until we believe, we are outside of Christ, and we must believe to enjoy the full benefits of salvation that He has purchased for His elect.

[mikelyons]

Scripture: "when you did not know God" (Gal 4:8) "But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God..." (vs 9)

""for the Son of Man has come to seek & to save that which was lost" (Luke 19:10)

"I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance" (Luke 5:32)

"at that time you were without Christ... having no hope & without God...But now in Christ Jesus..." (Eph 2:12-13)

Calvinism: I can cruise to bars on my Harley, get in fights, pickup gals, then at a stop light, hear John 3:16 on a car's radio & if I've always been in Christ/one of the random elect "POOF" I will be irresistibly given faith to realize I've always been in Christ (similar to the Brahmin aspect of Hinduism)

[bradnewman]

John piper never said that he said the salvation of believers was in the MIND of god before we were even born.

“even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, ”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1‬:‭4‬-‭5‬

[rsandy]

Your understanding is wrong. Being in eternity past with God does not oppose the fact that in history we were lost, because God can see us from eternity united and separated at the same ‘time’, they do not relate to the same experience. He can see us those who will be united in history to him and that would be the union itself.The truth that underlies this and everything else that God does in history is God’s perfect knowledge of all things. The alternative is that God only saw us united with him in history, not from eternity, but God knowledge is perfect.

[stove]

Basic conflation: God decreed the system salvation in the eternally-chosen Messiah, His Son. That does not mean individuals OPERATING in the present time within that system were “chosen” in that same way that Christ was chosen, beforehand.