Does Calvinism Make God the Author of Evil?

Dr. Craig compares Calvinism and Molinism regarding how they handle the problem of evil!

We welcome your comments in the Reasonable Faith forums:

[jackhutton]

Who else would love to see WLC on the Joe Rogan experience

[MarkNOTW]

1) God is good and loving
2) A good and loving God would not cause persons to hold false beliefs
3) if divine causal determinism is true, then every belief a person holds is caused by God
4) many persons do not believe that divine causal determinism is true
5) therefore, divine causal determinism is not true

[monsterhuntervideos]

If God literally determines all your actions so that you cannot choose otherwise. If he determines your heart condition and absolutely everything then how could he not be the author of evil? This isn't a problem for me as a Christian because I'm not a Calvinist. I mean I believe God knows what I'm going to do, but I don't believe he 100% robotically controls my actions. Sure he may override the will at times to fulfill a purpose and determine certain things in my life, but he also gives freedom within that framework. I don't think he's robotically controlling every moment or microsecond, neither do I think that he doesn't sometimes override the will. Look at Nebuchadnezzar. He overrides his will by making him go mad like an animal for a time, but once he humbles himself he restores him to his right mind where his faculties for choice and rationality are restored.

[leonardu]

How any sane christian believes something so incoherent and anti-biblical as Calvinism is beyond me.

[camilofranco]

When I saw the titled, I thought... oh nooo Dr Craig noooo. But after the video I was like, oh thank God, this man its right.

[isaacbonilla]

Yes Calvinism makes God the author of sin. Not sure why evangelicals don’t regard Calvinism as an heresy with its horrid view of God

[JaneSmith]

Thank you!!! I've been trying to say this for years!

[jaredmatthews]

where is this clip taken from? i’m trying to watch the full interview

[jonny]

Calvinists, I'm genuinely interested in how you would answer these questions:

- Are all who hear the gospel given a bona fide offer of saving grace (given a chance to repent and believe the Lord Jesus)?

No:

- So then is it true that hell is occupied by people who have not been offered salvation?

- How is God loving if he offers some sinners saving grace, but doesn't offer it to other equally as undeserving sinners?

Yes:

- Is saving grace irresistible?

> No - not a calvinist/reformed
> Yes - So then if all are given a genuine offer of saving grace, but noone is able to resist an offer of saving grace, why aren't all people saved? Also, how do you square grace being irresistible with Acts 7:51 which indicates we are able to resist the work of the Spirit?

[joshbeard]

Calvinism = God predestines and predetermines events but doesn't cause them. Sadly, people confuse Calvinist for thinking God causes people to do things. He doesn't nor to any Calvinist actually believe this.

[PLATOLOSOPHY]

One of my philosopher professors told me to “not take William Lane Craig seriously in the philosophy” department. He’s agreed to a debate, just waiting for WLC to reply!

[dcouric]

Short and long answer: no, because in the reformed view, while God is wholly responsible for our salvation, we are wholly responsible for our sin. The question is malformed because it could be turned around: Does molinism, or any other weslyan view, make man the author of salvation?

[georgemoncayo]

No, In Isaiah 10 God used the evil Assyrians to fight and punish the Jews but then God said that he would punish the Assyrians for doing what God himself made them do. Why? Because verse 7 tells us it was because of their intentions, God had righteous intentions but the Assyrians did not. Joseph's brothers sold him into slavery but it was God who made that happen and Gen 50:20 says "As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive." In Acts 4:26-28 the early church prayed and declared God's sovereignty by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and said "The kings of the earth took their stand, And the rulers were gathered together Against the Lord and against His Christ.’For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, TO DO WHATEVER YOUR HAND AND YOUR PURPOSE PREDESTINED TO OCCUR." Exodus 4:11 says "The LORD said to him, "Who has made man's mouth? Or who makes him mute or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the LORD?"

[kprosser]

I had many debates years back (late 70s, 80s) about predestination and free will. The problem for Calvinists really lay in their worldview that if we are not irreversibly saved, then how can we know we're definitely saved. They diminished Hebrews ch 6 & 10 and Christ's warnings against blasphemy and 2Peter 2 to attribute these and other passages to those who appeared to be saved, and claimed true Christians would do no evil after salvation, because they couldn't. I can see now this ideology bred a lot of hard hearted or shallow faith fellow believers, even if they were clever and deep thinkers.

[miller]

I very much enjoy WLG and will continue to do so. However, the issue is not philosophical inferences nor a paradigm that is most logical, the real and abiding issue is what does the Bible say about our capacity to believe absent God’s working as well as Gods descriptive plan in working. Whether it be the case of Pharaoh or Judas or any prophecy. God has a determined or absolute will in which a specific thing would be done AND the will of the creature would freely do it. Thereby, God IS the sovereign AND humanity is really responsible for evil. These two premises are not incompatible when we come from the view of depravity and absolute sovereignty. On the contrary, without the sovereignty of God, no prophecy of God is assured. No eternal promise of God is really valid. If God is not the sovereign then we have a strong ally on our side but not a sovereign God.

[georgemoncayo]

Everything that happens in history has been decreed/Predestined before the world was created see Eph 1:11, Proverbs 16:33 and Amos 3:6. And yes even when terrible things happen, I know it's hard for some people to accept but look what happened when David sinned against God and one of Davids punishments was that God told him that he was going to use Davids own son to shame his Father by Absalom Absalom doing something immoral to his Fathers concubines in front of all of Israel, see 2 Samuel 12:11-12 God said "Thus says the Lord, ‘Behold, I will raise up evil against you from your own household; I will even take your wives before your eyes and give them to your companion, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight. Indeed you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, and under the sun." Notice how God said "I WILL DO THIS THING."That was fulfilled in 2 Samuel 16:21-22. Jesus did not die for every single person ever and Jesus didn't die to make people savable. He died to save his elect. In John 17:9 Jesus said that he does not pray for the world. The word world is used in different contexts, in that context he's talking about the non elect. In John 3:16 world means that he purchased people from every tribe, tongue and nation Rev 5:9 and for the children of God scattered abroad John 11:52. Some have been "long beforehand marked out for condemnation" Jude 4 and "appointed to doom." 1 Peter 2:8. About Pharaoh God said “For this VERY PURPOSE I raised you up, to demonstrate My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth.” So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires." Rom 9:17-18. Jesus said "I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight. All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him." Matthew 11:25-27. So, 2 Pet 3:9 the "not willing that any should perish" if you read that letter in context, 2 Pet 1:1 says "To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours." As far as salvation for all men verses, Paul was refuting the false notion of his time that God was only desiring to save just the Jews and 1 Tim 2:2 says to pray "for kings and all who are in authority" because as humans WE DON'T KNOW WHO THE ELECT ARE SO WE PRAY FOR EVERYONE! That's what it means in verse 4 by saying "all men." Amos 3:2 God said "of all the nations of the earth I have only known you." For centuries God passed over the majority of humankind because this verse isn't about knowledge it's about relationship. And it isn't because God foresaw Israel was more righteous then the other nations because sometimes Israel was more sinful then the pagan nations see 2 Kings 21:9. Only those who were predestined to be saved will be see Acts 13:48, Ephesians 1:4-5, Eph 1:11, Romans 9:11-23, John 6:37. 1 Samuel 3:14 God said “Therefore I have sworn to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli’s house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever.” That's Limited atonement.

[galacticcandycrumbs]

Craig is understandably uncomfortable with the idea of God creating evil.

Craig is not understandably uncomfortable with the idea of death before the fall.

[lawrencestanley]

William L. Craig suggests that there are certain truths that do not require a “truth maker, ” that is, they are true just because they are true, and they do not need any grounding, and that these "subjunctive conditionals" fall under that definition.

However, it is declared of Jesus in both John 1:14, 17 and John 14:6 that He IS the truth, and Ephesians 4:21 declares that “truth is in Jesus.” John 14:17, 15:26, and 16:13 speaks of the Holy Spirit as the “Spirit of truth;” 1 John 5:6 declares that “the Spirit is the truth, ” and Isaiah 65:16 declares Him to be “the God of truth.” But this does not mean that He merely aligns Himself with truth as men do in Exodus 18:21, as if truth were some external standard with which He must align, and we know this because, as we have already seen, the scriptures declare that Yahweh IS the truth. We see in John 17:17 that the word of Yahweh is truth, that is, the intangible, sanctifying, essence of Yahweh is truth, and that this truth became flesh. Elsewhere we see that “from Him and through Him and to Him are all things” (Romans 11:36), that is to say, Yahweh is the source, sustainer, and the rightful end of “all things” (see also 1 Corinthians 8:6, 15:28, Ephesians 1:23, 4:6, Hebrews 2:10).

Because the Bible everywhere declares Yahweh to be THE truth, and in John 14:6, Jesus declares Himself to be THE way, THE truth, and THE life, if anywhere there ever was truth that existed completely apart from Yahweh (such as subjunctive conditionals), then no truth could ever be called “THE” truth, since there would be more than one of them. Therefore any truth, if it is truth at all, is derived from Him who IS the truth (Colossians 1:16-20), and any assertion to the contrary, that a particular truth is outside of Him, or that some truth can exist without any grounding, is simply false according to the word of Yahweh. To assert otherwise, given what Jesus said in John 14:6, if there is another “truth, ” that is, if there is some truth not derived from Yahweh, then there is also another “way, ” and we know that this is false.

Because all truth has its grounding in Yahweh (cf. Psalm 31:5), how is it that anyone can then assert that there can exist “truth” about the creation that has no grounding? This can only come from an extra-biblical narrative, because according to scripture, no aspect of creation (no truth about creation) can exist outside of the Creator and His eternal decree (cf. Ephesians 1:11, 3:11, Romans 11:36). Therefore, according to scripture, subjunctive conditionals (as defined by Molinism) are false, and therefore, Molinism is false.

[johnschutt]

And here is where you are incorrect. Scripture clearly teaches that God is not the author of sin. That is the reformed/Calvinistic position. Yet your position clearly makes man the ultimate sovereign.

[michaeltamajong]

Edit: here's what I thought before (8months ago)
Calvinism is untenable. It is based on a misconception of God's omnipotence and omniscience. God knows who will choose God and that is why God can speak about the elect. God is not the one who causes them to believe, but God knows that they will believe. All the so called calvinistic verses are actually statements of God's omniscience, not that God determines who believes in God.

Edit: I have come to the better understanding of Calvinism and the biblical roots. I no longer hold to the ideas I posted above. I just thank God for showing me His sovereign nature in
His word. Although I don't have all the understanding in the world, I will dwell on what God has revealed and not on my own understanding.