Calvinism and the problem of evil | with @Soteriology101

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#Theology #Soteriology #Apologetics

[mitchellcollins]

“For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3‬:‭4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

[epochqc]

always happy to hear frank talk about these subject. have a nice day all of you!!!

[S]

I think the problem is one of definitions. Both sides needs to define what free will means. We certainly have the ability to make decisions but we’re certainly not free to do whatever we want. We’re extremely limited in many ways.

[Ooochild]

Calvinist here. Just saying hello, God bless, and have a merry Christmas everyone!!

[maidenx]

Isaiah 10 is a really great chapter that explains the Biblical (Calvinist) view. God is in charge and His will reigns, but he is not responsible for any evil. He is controlling everything, yet we are still responsible for our actions. Frank misrepresents Calvinists constantly by claiming Calvinists can't answer the problem of evil simply because he doesn't understand it himself. Notice the lack of Scripture in his arguments.
Calvinists don't claim that evil is a mystery. For example, one reason that Calvinists explain evil is that God is presenting His attribute of purely righteous judgment and justice, just as He shows His mercifulness through forgiveness, His love on the cross, and His creativity through creation, and so forth. Everything is about who God is. If there is no evil, then there is no way to show God's justice.
A simplified analogy is that a teacher is in control of her classroom through rules, instruction, discipline, rewards, and seating arrangements, and yet students are still responsible for their own behavior. This analogy can even be expanded in that if the students love the teacher, they will obey her out of love and not because of the force of the rules (law). It is a poor analogy, because it doesn't begin to grasp God's hand being involved in everything that happens.



Shall the axe boast over him who hews with it,
or the saw magnify itself against him who wields it?
As if a rod should wield him who lifts it,
or as if a staff should lift him who is not wood!
Isaiah 10:15


Are not God's ways higher than ours? I pray Frank can comes to terms with God's sovereign will and stop blaming Calvinists for it. It takes humility to grasp how completely God's will reigns and to not think you are in control of your own life, and yet still be responsible for your actions.

[robtyler]

Does God sovereignly choose? I don't understand why those who lean toward the Arminian side squirm over this. The answer is either yes or no. Just how amazing is Grace? Pretty good, but I played a part too?

[WillemLuijk]

Calvinists do not deny that man can choose but they phrase it this way: The mind is darkened, the will is wrong, the passions are unregulated, the walk is sinful. This is based on Ephesians 4 : 18 and Romans 8 : 7. Calvinists are those who, on the contrary, know very well that God is sovereign and governs both good and evil. See it from Job and Amos 3:6 "Shall the trumpet be blown in the city, that the people tremble not? Shall there be any evil in the city, that the LORD doeth not?"
Immediately after our covenant head Adam falls, God has every right to bring whatever evil upon mankind. Yet almost in all the plagues to come there is still a possibility left for man to still repent as with Noah for 120 years. Joseph had a deep understanding of this matter when his brothers come to him after the death of their father. Then he says in Genesis 50 : 20 "Thou hast thought evil against me: but God hath thought it for good: that He might do, as it is this day, to preserve a great people in life." And that is how God still works. Through it all He gathers the sheep of His flock which He has chosen from eternity as we can know from Acts 15 : 18 "Known unto God are all His works from the beginning of the world." and in Ephesians 1: 4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love."

[EndTimesHarvest]

Jesus said, "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments". And thus, in order for us to choose to be unloving towards God, it was necessary for God to give us the freewill that allows us to break His commandments; that breaking His commandments is an act of hatred towards God. Love cannot be forced; if it is, then it isn't really love. God had to give us the freewill that allows us to love God by choosing to keep His commandments, or to allow us to show our hatred towards God by choosing to break His commandments.

[ameribeaner]

It’s simple, If God is a spaceless, timeless, immaterial being, then the teachings of Calvinism are correct. If He isn’t those things, then Calvinism is incorrect. The real problem is that when people worship their free will, like Flowers, they deny the God of the Bible.

The Bible is clear on two things: that God Created, Controls, and predestines everything and that man has free will. The Bible doesn't describe man’s free will as in conflict with God's predestination, nor predestination refutes free will.

Man’s free will is dependent on God’s Sovereign predestination. This is why atheists, after rejecting God’s Sovereignty, argue that free will is an illusion. They understand that without the interference of an outside, divine being, there can be no such thing as free will. So, man has free will because God predestined man to have free will. Without God’s predestination, the atheist is correct in saying we're just jellyfish piloting a bone mech guided by nothing more than chemical impulses.

[matthewbateman]

I had STRONG Calvinist theology for a good chunk of my life, before eventually changing some beliefs.
But from the Calvinist perspective, the answer to why God allows evil is, He is sovereign. We know salvation is a gift. He made a good world, and we ruined it.. He doesn't owe it to anyone to save them.. On Calvinism, if you go to Heaven, then God is merciful; and if you go to hell, God is a just judge... The problem with free will (which I believe in now), is that, unless there are more souls in Heaven than in hell at the end of time, then God seems to have lost more than won; even if more are in Heaven, it seems like a compromise that was 'worth it' to God... But on Calvinism, God 'wins' with every single soul.
Isaiah says, "His ways are not our ways, and His thoughts are not our thoughts."
And Romans says, "For the Lord will have mercy on whom He will have mercy; and have compassion on whom He will have compassion."
This is the Calvinist point of view, anyway.

[HumanAction]

Which Calvinist apologists?
Cornelius Van Til? Greg Bahnsen? John Frame? James White? Eli Ayala? Jeff Durbin?
Name names and their specific arguments, otherwise you're building a straw man.
You also debated David Silverman on this very topic and you got owned. You struggled and did very poorly.
James White debated him on the same topic and bulldozed Silverman.
Wise Disciple actually did separate episodes on the two debates and came to the same conclusion.
You're hardly in the position to claim you can give a robust response to the problem of evil after that debate.
Maybe you should debate James White on the topic.
What say you?

Also consider:
"I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things."
Isaiah 45:7

[Shawn-]

Calvinism teaches that God is ultimately sovereign, in that he decrees even evil acts to occur. When scripture tells us that:

1. God is light. He has no darkness in him at all.
2. God cannot be tempted with sin. He himself tempts no man.
3. God does not command or mention evil, nor does it enter his mind (Jeremiah 19:5). This means that God does not think up evil for others to commit. The intention for evil is not on his mind nor does he command something that is contrary to his nature.

[christopherhobby]

Hi good mornin’. Been saved since last weekend of November of 1997. Not a Calvinist. I am a Christian.

[cesarg.campos]

The thing is that Calvinism asserts that the only human beings who actually enjoyed free will were Adam and Eve and once they sinned, the will of the entire human race was enslaved by sin. To put it simply, when we sin, though we want to do God's will yet we succumb to it (especially with Christians who struggle with any type of addiction), though we had a choice we end up doing what we abhor the most–that's Paul's point in Romans 7:18-25. Moreover, our will is not so free when the scriptures assert that before Christ we were under Satan's dominion.

[kinggenius]

The existence of an omniscient, infallible God is wholly incompatible with the existence of free will

[vanDelen]

Makes a lot of sense...but I saw many situations when God "chased" people for many years untill they got saved. And there are some kind of people He just "leaves alone".
Thank God he didn't respected my bad decisions and interfered in my life till I had to surrender. Does anyone here feel the same?

[urfriend]

For provisionists and molinists God is not in complete control. That’s another God.

[PatrickTube]

Turek should take James White's challenge to come on the Dividing Line. That way his strawmen arguments against Calvinism would easily be answered and he would be schooled just like Flowers was schooled by Dr. White in their debate on Romans 9 that I attended.

[RamsinSavra]

Will you do this gig with James White, please?

[NewCreationInChrist]

Hebrews 12:1-2 👑
"Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run  with perseverance the race marked out for us,  fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross,  scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God."