Resonating noncommutative Fundamental Time: Roger Penrose on how protoconsciousness is unification

[kathrynengel]

Took a time trip back to this . Thanks for being the nonlocal reporter on the Universe.

[voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang]

thanks for the question. Physicist Olivier Costa de Beauregard, the protege of Nobel Physicist Louis de Broglie, argued that in fact precognition is the basis for all the other spiritual abilities. This means indeed there can be signals from the future. An award-winning book by a lady who trained in Tai Chi (for international competitions) and she works as a Ph.D. in psychology - her book is all about precognitive dreaming. It's called "Transcendent Dreaming" by Christina Donnell.
The time perception increases internally while decreases externally. This is called "the flow" as you probably have heard and Professor Stuart Hameroff discusses this experience as real precognition. Qigong Master Jim Nance also discusses this experience from his days of kung fu fighting. On a deeper level though as Jim Nance explains and I have experienced also - the internal perception is precognitive. So before Jim Nance caused pain in the person he was fighting (who he also saw moving in slow motion externally) then internally he was (from the future) already experiencing the pain inside his own body. This occurs on the speed of light as our conscious awareness but the actual reality is superluminal or faster than the speed of light - meaning that all of reality is interwoven or "the one" via this flowing of the future and past as information-energy.
thanks,
drew

[voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang]

"To give a flavour of the attitudes of the time, consider the title of Hamilton's (1837)
lecture "The Metaphysics of Mathematics-Algebra as Pure Time", a title that one would
expect from someone on the fringe, and not someone at the centre of things! In that
lecture he wrote:
In algebra relations are between successive states of some changing thing or thought. In other words algebra is not about material process but something more general that could be applied to both matter and mind.
Grassmann (1995) takes this further. He argues that mathematics is about thought,
not material reality. It is about relationships of form, not relationships of content.
Mathematics is to do with ordering forms created in thought. Thus since thoughts are not
located in space-time, mathematics is not necessarily about material things in space-time."

[voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang]

it depends on the dose. I did salvia to test it out against my qigong yoga meditation training - so I was in full lotus. Actually if you just chew the leaves then it's like pot - with a slowing down of time and a bliss. In full lotus I got the kundalini bliss from saliva and the first time - I had a spiritual awareness like my whole life had been just a dream. I could not remember my own name. I remember thinking about Mexico and then thought, "what IS Mexico?" Then I had this sensation of my family being concerned about me needing to come back alive. When I woke up I ran out of my apartment building without my glasses on - because I was still in a state of coming back to normal awareness.
After that I did smoking - and I would pass out which is supposedly the highest level. I was in full lotus yoga padmasana so I would not fall over. Actually the first time I smoked it then the Salvia tried to pull my spirit out of my body and my spirit was halfway out because the Yuan Qi of my third eye had a stronger magnetic force than the Salvia. So then I was laughing at the Salvia while my spirit was half out of my body - at an angle. I had friends who smoked it only ONCE because their spirit immediately got pulled out of their body.
After that I kept trying smoking Salvia and I got the kundalini bliss and then would pass out while in full lotus. One time I came too and I IMMEDIATELY put my hand in front of my face - I had a winter hat pulled over my eyes with my eyes closed in a pitch black dark room yet I immediately saw RAINBOW auras around my hands! Then it went away and I was back to normal.
There is a great report by D.M. Turner about how he did Salvia while he also did DMT and so his supposed DMT "machine elves" got their body parts and clothing switched around by the Salvia and the Salvia changed the colors of the machine elves. This PROVES that all these claims of "machine elves" by DMT are in fact just hallucinations. Hilarious. Salvia can teach us in that way. thanks

[voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang]

For example, Penrose and Hameroff’s theory
of orchestrated objective reduction in microtubules proposes that usual
quantum theory has to be modified by the idea of a gravitational collapse
of the wave function. Their idea is that the non-computational nature of
such a spontaneous gravitational collapse underlies the non-computational
aspects of human intelligence.
In a similar vein we propose that an understanding of the way in which
the mind affects neural processes does not merely require the postulation
of quantum effects triggering neural processes in the brain, but the ad-
ditional idea that something else, active information, contained in the
“mind-field” can in turn affect the quantum potential. This goes beyond
the predictions of standard quantum theory and implies that we do not
propose that mind can be reduced to the quantum level. Instead the idea
is that mind can be seen as a relatively autonomous, higher level of active
information, which has both a physical and a mental aspect (see footnote
3). Our consideration of Bohmian quantum physics and its extension sug-
gests a natural way to think about how mind can have a genuine effect
upon neural processes. This indicates a novel class of physical processes
involving mind and matter, which we will address in subsequent research
(see also Bohm 1980, Chap. 7, Bohm and Hiley 1993, Chap. 15, and
Pylkk ̈anen 2004."

[voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang]

"Of course if we approach this idea from the standpoint of classical physics, we
would strongly object to any form of non-local energy. However before objecting too
strongly, we should recall the nature of gravitational energy. In general relativity energy
is needed to curve spacetime but this energy cannot be localised. The argument is very
simple (See Misner, Thorn and Wheeler 1970) and is as follows: - Einstein’s equivalence
principle plays a pivotal role in general relativity. It says that one can always find a
frame in which all local gravitational fields disappear. If there are no local gravitational
fields, there can be no local gravitational energy, but this does not mean that there is no
gravitational energy, it just means that it cannot be localised.
The similarity between the non-local gravitational energy and the non-local
correlation energy involved in the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen effect has already been noted
by Penrose (1996). He has tried to make use of this common feature to provide an
alternative way of solving the measurement problem. Whether his proposals do solve
this problem are necessary or whether our proposals out lined above are sufficient is
something that can only be answered by experiment. To this end Penrose has proposed a
specific experiment to test his ideas. Whatever the outcome of this experiment there
nevertheless seems to be a deep connection between the non-local gravitational energy
and the non-local EPR correlation energy."
January 1999
Authors:
B. J. Hiley
University College London

[voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang]

"The appearance of the quantum potential is clearly a consequence of the non-commutative structure required by quantum theory. ...With a non-commutative algebra there is no unique underlying manifold. ...The inner automorphisms of the algebra of operators are simply a re-description of the potentialities of the process so that every unitary transformation becomes merely a re-expression of the order. In this sense everything is a potentiality." Time and the Algebraic Theory of Moments (2013) B. J. Hiley

[voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang]

"we consider a role for information in the absence of subjects. This notion of objective active information opens up new connections between
information and meaning, some of which have been discussed by Hiley
(2002).
The proposal is that active information at the quantum level organizes
the dynamical evolution of the system itself. To make this notion more
concrete we can consider the root of the word information, which literally
means to put form into a process. As we remarked earlier, the quantum
potential appears to be some kind of internal energy which carries infor-
mation about the environment. Therefore we consider the idea that the
whole process, particle plus active environment (which in terms of a mea-
surement requires the specification of experimental conditions), is being
formed partly from within. This suggests that the process is more organic
than mechanical. In this respect the system does not require an external
force to solely determine its future behavior, thus clearly enriching the
notion of causality. It looks as if the classical potential can be regarded as
a “push-pull” potential while the quantum potential involves something
subtler such as information."

[voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang]

"The first suggestion we follow is that of Prigogine (1980).
He suggested that we need a theory in which irreversibility plays a
fundamental role directly in the dynamics itself. Then perhaps time could
then be introduced, not as a parameter, but by an operator. It is the absence
of such an operator that has handicapped my own attempts to find a fully
algebraic description of physical processes.
In order to show how a time operator emerges from the work here, first note

[voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang]

"In this way he draws attention to the
possibility of describing quantum phenomena in a phase space. However we now
know this is no classical phase space, it is a non-commutative phase space, where
the symbols p and x are subject to star-multiplication f (p, x) ? g(p, x), which
is non-commutative [101] [75]. This product is called the Moyal product even
though it was actually defined in the original von Neumann paper. Furthermore
as we have noted above, the coordinates x and p are not the coordinates of a
point particle, but the mean values of a quantum ‘blob’ in a symplectic space
which becomes the classical phase space in the classical limit.
What this result means is that the Moyal algebra should not be regarded as
‘semi-classical’ as it is at the heart of the standard quantum formalism, which
is, of course, why the approach reproduces exactly all the quantum expectation
values. It is a way of treating quantum phenomena in a non-commutative space,
which for obvious reasons, we have called a ‘non-commutative phase space’."
History and New Developments.
B. J. Hiley.

[voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang]

"Perhaps the clearest example of the role of this implicate order comes from
listening to music. Listening is an active experience where we participate in the
movement itself. We do not perceive a series of isolated notes. We hear new notes
reverberating within the memory of the previous notes. This together with the
anticipation of future notes constitutes an unbroken movement. What is apprehended,
then, is an undivided state of flowing movement. We can argue that we directly perceive
the implicate order because we become part of the total movement. "
To summarise then we have on the one hand mind where the content of thought is
displayed in explicate orders, while the process of thinking, feeling, etc occurs through
the activity of unfolding and enfolding in the implicate order. At the same time, the
display of matter occurs in the explicate order, but its deeper quantum movement occurs
through unfoldment and enfoldment in the implicate order. Thus the ground of both
thought and matter is in the implicate order. Our task is to find an algebraic description of
those aspects of this implicate order where mind and matter have their origins.

[voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang]

"The quantum potential does not have the usual properties expected from a
classical potential. It does not arise from an external source; it does not fall off with
distance. It seems to indicate a new quality of internal energy and more importantly from
our point of view, it give rise to the notion of participation, non-separation and non-
locality. At the deeper level it arises because, as Bohr often stressed, it is not possible to
make a sharp separation between the observing instrument and the quantum process
while the interaction is taking place. The Bohm approach makes a logical distinction
between the two but then the quantum potential links them together again so that they are
actually not separate."
2001, Basil J. Hiley

[voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang]

"Mitochondria and chloroplasts were likely created when a eukaryotic cell engulfed smaller, prokaryotic cell, which then became an organelle. Scientists speculate that chloroplasts and algae arose through a series of endosymbiotic events."

[voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang]

"However, uncertainties can be thought of in two distinct ways.
The conventional view is to say that the particle itself cannot be localized
at a point with a definite momentum. The other view is simply to say that
we cannot measure the position and the momentum of the particle at the
same time. Indeed, this is a much more accurate description of the actual
situation, because it can be shown in every case that it is not possible to
build a piece of apparatus that enables one to measure both the position
and the momentum at exactly the same instant. The traditional view in
quantum physics has been to assume that this inability to measure means
that the particle does not have a well-defined position and a well-defined
momentum simultaneously. However, the empirical data in no way rules
out the possibility that the particle actually has a well-defined position
and momentum simultaneously. It merely shows that we cannot mea-
sure them simultaneously."

[voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang]

We might be tempted to conclude that we now have a collection of red spheres,
but we had better check that they are all still red! When we check this, we find half of
our spheres have changed colour and are now blue! This result follows from the fact that
the 'observables' do not commute. If [C, S] = 0 then re-measuring the colour of the
objects would still all be red. It is only in this case that we can divide our objects into
four unique sets; sets of red spheres, sets of red cubes, sets of red cubes and sets of blue
cubes. In the world of non-commutativity this is something you cannot do. You cannot
display every property in one 'picture'.
This example shows very clearly what we are up against in quantum theory.
"At the deepest level the process has neither colour nor shape....
Thus the observer is not something special. The
cosmos does not need observers to function and evolve. Observation is simply a
particular example of general notion of transformation in which the observed and
observing processes fuse in an indivisible and irreducible way. Bohr (1961) talked about
it as "the indivisibility of the quantum of action". It is not that we can never separate
objects from the observing process, we can once the interaction has ceased. But during
the interaction the individual becomes an intrinsic part of the whole process, and becomes
transformed in the process. This is how the example of the colours and shapes outlined
above can be understood. The colour measuring process can transform the shape and the
shape measuring process can transform the colour"

[voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang]

Chew (1960) brought this idea out in a new and striking way by drawing attention to
the S-matrix approach to high-energy processes. Here the energy-momentum plane is
taken as basic so that we can exploit strict energy and momentum conservation. But then
the role of the spacetime manifold has to be derived since it can no longer be regarded as
basic. This brings us to the question of the role of space-time itself. Why is it regarded as

[voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang]

Firstly we showed that the Berry phase and the Aharonov-Bohm effect followed immediately from this equation in a very simple way. Secondly we used this quantum equation to see where the quantum potential introduced by Bohm emerges from what is
essentially the Heisenberg picture (see also Hiley 2002a). We found that
this potential only appeared as a result of projecting the algebraic elements
onto a representation space. This led us to speculate that all the 'action' of
quantum phenomena takes place in the algebra itself, in the pre-space."

[voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang]

yes if you study the free book "Taoist Yoga: alchemy and immortality" that goes into the details of the mind-body transformation. The problem in India is that the Brahmin Vedic culture did invade with chariots around 1800 BCE as DNA evidence now proves - so the Brahmin caste has more white skin since the wheat farming lacks vitamin D (the wheat from West Asia). So the with the caste system the Brahmin priesthood relied on a military caste to protect it so the Brahmin priests could just do mind or jnana meditation but actually this relied on very strict rules. For example I discovered a Brahmin priest training manual in this used bookstore and the book explained that if a Brahmin priest makes eye contact with a female then 3 days of ritual purification is required! Ramana Maharshi did not even see his own mom when he did nine years of nonstop mind yoga before he experienced his heart stopping for over 15 minutes as his "eternal liberation." Westerners do not want to accept this length of discipline of the training but instead David Godman tries to claim Ramana Maharshi didn't need to do that 9 years of training and instead the first experience of Nirvikalpa Samadhi at age 16 or so (when Ramana maharshi imagined being dead) was all that was necessary. Westerners think of the formless awareness as some kind of static realm when in fact since Jnana Yoga relies on the earlier types of Kundalini yoga and Raja Yoga then there HAS to be a body purification based on celibacy and fasting and a vegetarian diet, etc. So these are very strict protocols also requiring nonstop mind yoga meditation with very strict gender relations. For example Poonjaji was a full lotus Raja Yoga master in his previous life - that's why as a child he would play with the Gods of India and then he traveled around India asking gurus what god looked like or if they could see god. The answer as Ramana Maharshi provided is that you can't see god - this answer was provided via Ramana Maharshi's "yang shen" or a bilocation of him in "God" form. haha. The Ishwara of Ramana Maharshi in otherwords. It's very easy for a Westernized modern person to talk about these things but to actually activate the Shakti as a permanent eternal liberation state is very difficult - with each breath the mind empties out beyond the heart - in a beyond death state!! I actually have trained with teachers who have achieved this but they also do 12 hours of full lotus padmasana yoga meditation each day. So if you want to know if someone is a real master then just see if they can sit in full lotus padmasana in ease for as long as they want. Otherwise their Yuan Qi or Shakti is not really activated and they are not constantly recharging their Yuan Qi - instead they are living off their separated Prana channels of the body - what's called yin and yang qi in Daoism. thanks

[voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang]

"Thus we see that [0, B] acts like the plenum. Thus we see that here the vacuum state is not empty. Internally it has content but externally it is empty. For the plenum it is the other way

[voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang]

53 minutes ago
the tongue against the roof of the mouth is a key secret to yoga - it activates the vagus nerve to connect the front and back energy channels.
3


25 minutes ago (edited)
@costaconn3231 It's actually relativistic quantum biology. You need to study Stuart Hameroff who works with Roger Penrose. Nasal mucosa is innervated by multiple subsets of nociceptive, parasympathetic and sympathetic nerves. Low frequency (LF) HRV corresponds to both sympathetic activity and parasympathetic activity, whereas high frequency (HF) HRV mainly corresponds to increased parasympathetic activity. Although the LF:HF ratio has been suggested as a measure of sympathovagal balance, this remains highly controversial.14 The complexity of the ANS is such that there usually is no single best test and, therefore, tests are more often used in combination rather than in isolation. Recently, increasing evidence that indicates that the characteristic symptoms of sinonasal diseases, including nasal obstruction, rhinorrhea, and facial pressure and/or pain, may be, at least in part, due to disruption of normal ANS function. Patients with chronic rhinorrhea [nose] secondary to idiopathic perennial rhinitis demonstrate hypervagal tone on objective autonomic evaluation. The secretory response is attenuated by chemical or surgical inhibition of cholinergic and vagal stimulation. Capsaicin, the spicy essence of chili peppers, activates laryngeal and pharyngeal vagal and glossopharyngeal afferents that induce the urge to cough.
See the youtube vid: Video discussing the glossopharyngeal and vagus nerves of the larynx and pharynx in relation to the learning objectives for the DENT 545 Dental Head and Neck Anatomy course at the University of Michigan. for details. thanks
Highlighted reply
@costaconn3231
@costaconn3231
19 minutes ago
spare me, it is plain pseudoscience. You obviously have not read the criticism of RQB, which maybe you should. It's all too Deepak Chopra, and clashes with everything I learned during by Post-doc work.
1


8 minutes ago (edited)
@costaconn3231 I've been corresponding with quantum physics Professor Basil J. Hiley who collaborated with David Bohm. Hiley just gave a talk recently with Penrose and Hameroff - last year. You need to study noncommutativity. Hiley's working on a new paper now based on Fields Medal math Professor Alain Connes lecture to physicists on the source of quantum randomness being from nonlocal noncommutativity. See the youtube lecture by Alain Connes - Temps et aléa du quantique (the title is in French but the lecture is in English). So yeah - this is the exact opposite of quantum woo woo - rather a Field Medal is harder to get than the Nobel Prize. thanks
@Ozhull
@Ozhull
5 minutes ago
"front and back energy channels" BARF
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3 minutes ago
@costaconn3231 when you say "criticism of RQB" you are referring to Max Tegmark who was debunked many years ago already by Hameroff. Aniriban Bandyopadhyay has been corroborating the Hameroff-Penrose model. Time for you to do some remedial research. thanks.


1 minute ago
@Ozhull Not according to Eddie Oshins who coined the term "quantum psychology" while working at the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center - and while he taught Wing Chun. Oshins collaborated with math professor Louis Kauffman. Oshins realized the secret of Neigong as nonwestern internal martial arts alchemy is due to noncommutativity. Thanks for sharing your BARF opinion though! haha.