The Pioneers and the Trinity in Adventism

The Pioneers and the Trinity in Adventism

The doctrine of the Trinity, a controverted topic that has become a discussion in the past several years, particularly among Seventh-day Adventists. Is it Biblical and was it always part of the Seventh-day Adventist church? How is it that one God can be three and is Jesus Christ the Son of God or is this a role that Christ took upon himself for the plan of salvation? These are questions, among many others, that many are studying and trying to understand today. The goal of this short presentation is to allow the Seventh-day Adventist pioneers to speak for themselves to see what it is that they had to say with respect to the doctrine of the Trinity and the identity of God.

02:10 - John Nevins Andrews
06:11 - James White
09:14 - Joseph Bates
13:17 - J.N. Loughborough
17:08 - J.H. Waggoner
21:13 - Uriah Smith

Seventh-day Church of Revelation
1585 Draper St.,
Kingsburg, CA
93631

[gordo]

i came out if the papal church and joined the SDA because through the HOLY SPIRIT led me .Two things i could not comprehend in that church was, why did we go to mass on sunday and why is there three gods ? I found my answers in the SDA church, now iam finding pastors are teaching there are three gods which is puzzeling to me, i have stopped going to church there seems to be a lot of confusion in many matters now . I will stick with my bible and the teachings of ellen white and the early writtings may the love of JESUS and his spirit give you wisdom .

[mr.chuckgoodwin]

Best video I have seen in two or three years. I've searched the scriptures and I don't need to try to prove to anyone where I stand in regards to the trinity. My position is the trinity is a false pagan belief that will cause many Christians to miss out on salvation. It boils down to this when Christ opens the book of Life and he sees our hearts every one of us should while we're alive and able to think with the brains God gave us. We should ask ourselves what are we going to say to Christ can we defend our position. If you believe in the trinity there is no way it is not possible it will never happen that anyone can prove this ludicrous erroneous idea or methodology in regards to this Trinity but if Christ were to ask me why I don't believe in the trinity and I believe in him and his father in heaven and their spirit I have so many Bible verses in the Old testament and New testament interviews from our pioneers that proves the trinity does not make any sense and can't be proven. I'm not a pastor I'm not a Bible scholar I'm a sinner with common sense and a lot of people really should humble themselves and read the Bible and listen to the holy Spirit speak to them and start practicing what you're going to say to Christ on judgment Day. I'm not judging anyone Jesus will do that. But right this second if Jesus asked me why I believe like I do I can confidently tell him why I believe it improve it with scripture if you think it's going to be difficult to prove your case in regards to the trinity you really should start thinking about it now you're never promised a tomorrow. If you want to follow the crowd and jump off the bridge like they're doing go for it and do it. If you think well right now I'm having fun enjoying life I'll get things right with God and I'll follow what's right when I get a little older good luck to you. I've been a radiology technologist 30 years and I've worked with the forensic pathologist in the hospitals in other words I would x-ray people after they died to find out why they died. When I first started that job I remember asking myself the same question every single day as I looked into the eyes of someone that does not have a soul it's just a body. I would wonder I wonder if that person was ready to meet Christ or they waiting and having fun and then later in life they would make their decision. I don't know the answers I don't know what their thoughts were the last 10 seconds of their lives but I've x-rayed infants children teens adults and the elderly the reason I even brought this up is because I'm guilty. When I was younger I was one of those people that wanted to not be a Christ follower I was an Adventist that's what I called myself but the things I did were of the world and to be honest even as bad as I was I always felt guilty when I was sinning but it was a whole lot worse on Friday nights and Saturdays when Christ says he knocks on the door to your heart he's not joking but I learned he knocks a lot harder on Friday nights and Saturdays. I've been very very lucky if I had died at any moment during those years I already know that my name would not be in the book of life there's no way if you're willing to gamble with salvation you can gamble with it but when you gamble there's always that chance you'll lose if you seriously love Christ and seriously want to be with him in heaven don't wait I'm making that choice. I wrote a song years ago when I came back to the church and I called it I'll praise his name I'll never forget the last verse of the song I wrote it went like this. If I should die before I wake will it be heaven or hell because it's my soul at stake

[johansteyn]

As an SDA pastor, I have just recently accepted the Father Son message.

[bonjourincali]

Awesome. And the truth shall set you free.

[mpandamulusa]

Thanks so much servants of God. Glory be to God! The most urgent need of the seventh day Adventist church at present time is the correct understanding of the early Adventist's understanding of the Godhead and unlearn the pagan doctrine of Trinity( Catholism) which has swept almost the entire Church to worship the unknown god. May God open the eyes of these beautiful souls so that they can see the strong delusion in which they're in. May God bless you and your ministry.

[libad]

We have listened to pioneers. Fine. What about the prophetess? Whose authority will you follow, the pioneers' or the prophetess'? All the texts that appear to make Jesus less than God the Father, or to be a being generated of God are really against a proper understanding of the plan of salvation and the divinity of Jesus. The Bible tells us that there is one God and that there is no other God before me. And guess who that God speaking was? None other than Jesus. God gave us EW to put matters straight. We do not have to hold the Catholic concept of the Trinity which is actually different than the biblical one, or the Godhead of the Bible. Let the Bible speak for itself with the illumination of the SOP today and you are safe. I admonish you all to focus on the Bible and the SOP and there is little room for error. Blessings.

[mrsir]

"The Holy Spirit is Christ's REPRESENTATIVE but divested of the personality of humanity, and independent thereof. Cumbered with humanity, Christ could NOT be in every place personally THEREFORE it was for their interest that He (Christ) should go to the Father, and SEND the Spirit to be His successor on earth" (Desire of Ages pg 669)

[michaelshabangu]

It is my first time to come across this information. If possible, may I please get the web where I can download the pioneers fundamental beliefs . Thank you. God bless.

[alexramirez]

I felt a chill watching this. It is a precious truth indeed. The church must know this as a witness in order for Jesus to return again. God will bring out a remnant that holds firm to this truth. Thank you so much for your ministry!

[chrischung]

Typical non trinitarian teaching. They left out all of the pro trinity quotes. Be Bereans or be deceived.

[shauvaropatrick]

I am listening to this teaching every now and then, and have these sincere questions: did Jesus came down on Himself when He was baptized? What is the unpardonable sin: against Chirst or against Christ? Is Christ the "Other" Comforter too? What about 1John 5:7? What about E White statements of "the Trio", and all the other statements regarding the Holy Spirit not being Christ? On what bases does the devil counterfeits his trinity if there is not a genuine? More questions from both Bible and SOP in my head.

[rogermetzger]

I've already commented on this video but, after reading several more comments just now, I'm impressed to make this additional comment: I fear that there are two groups that are being misled on this subject: a) people who are following the nineteenth-century pioneers of the advent movement and b) people who are following the current leadership of the SdA organization.

Please, if you consider yourself to be in either of those two groups, undertake to study this subject for yourself and see whether you then agree with the comments I have made previously in the comment section. Much of the confusion has to do with what language we choose to use on this subject, some of which language creates unnecessary barriers to dialog, not only on this subject but other subjects as well.

[taliyahaviles]

Amen! The truth is so liberating, as Romans 1:17 tells us, "... For therein is the righteousness of GOD revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, the just shall live by faith...."

[leahvasquez]

Prov. 24: 21-22 fear god and king jesus. Zac. 6:13 jesus will build the temple of his god. John 20: 17 iwill go to my god. Mat. 13: 11 marc. 4: 34. Jesus told his apostle exclusively about the secret in heaven ….. After jesus gone to heaven here are the preaching of his apostle at romans 8:34 jesus pleads for us to his father, 1st peter 2: 4 god choose jesus, 1 st john 2: 1 jesus faced his father for our sin. Thats the teaching of his apostles so where is trinity? Ill help you find it. It is in 1 st tim. 4:1; 1 st john 4 1 and rev… 16: 13 -16. There are three un clean spirit that comes out of the mouth of false propheth. The tninity doctrine. Some of our political leaders are uñawarely gathered of these teaching. It cause the figurative war of good vs. Evil teaching. The armageddon.a symbolical battlefeild where gods true people defeated gods enemies.

[stephenmenhennett]

I was raised Adventist and the Seventh Day Adventists have become the very people they warned me about 50 years ago.

[therockfortress]

We have received some responses from our short survey.
The question was, “Is the One God who is a unity of three persons also a person himself? That is, will we see the one in three god in heaven when we get there? Does this triune god have the throne of his own besides that of the Father and of the Son?”
The responses are very conflicting and confusing. Please consider them for yourself.
1. A pastor said yes, the three persons make up one person. Asked to clarify how, the pastor has not come back to us yet.
2. A theologian said, they do not make one person, it is impossible to make one person from three persons. The Father is the unity of the trinity, and He is the One God. That raises many questions. If the Father is the One God, where is the triune God? How can the Father be a unity of himself and two others, to make one, if he is already the one?
3. Another person whose title is unknown said that the three persons of the trinity do not form one person. They are One God only in terms of having one purpose.
4. From our previous experiences, we have heard some say the One God of the Bible is the Godhead, i.e. just a divinity or deity, without further clarity on what that is?
5. Another theologian said that the One God who is a unity of three persons is not material or physical. That means the One God is an abstraction. In other words, he is a theory, or a concept in the minds of those who believe in him. We question. The Bible refers to the One God as “He” and he speaks. How can an abstraction, a theory or a concept in the mind be referred to as He? Does a concept speak?
6. Another person said the One God is a mystery, thus leaving the One God undefined. Sounds like a quick way for human wisdom to escape accountability for the confusion that human wisdom has created (akin to pleading insanity in court). We raise an issue with this unexplained mystery of human wisdom. The trinity doctrine, that is put together by human minds gives us the triune God. Thus, those who made the trinity doctrine must be able to explain it. In other words, we are not questioning the Bible, but the trinity doctrine, because the trinity doctrine is a product of human wisdom.
I don’t know about you, but this sounds like a lot of confusion. It seems there is no one with a clear understanding of what this human creation called the triune god is? To those who say it is a mystery we question. Why should human wisdom create a doctrine which it cannot explain and cannot understand? Is that not a reason to discard the doctrine and return to that only which the Bible says, that the is One God, the Father, who has Only One begotten Son. The One God, the Father has and is also a Spirit? No three equal persons making up confusion?
Regards,
The Rock Fortress Ministries.

[reginadiehl]

Every aspect of this presentation is so clear. A person would have to really work at pleasing other people in order to not understanding this very simple, very clear, truth about Our Heavenly Father and His ONLY BEGOTTEN SON Christ Jesus.

[clearlight]

It’s not about what the pioneers believed then, but what the Bible and the SOP say. Hebrews 1:13, 14 - “But to which of the angels said He at anytime, . . . Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation.” Here it says that angels are ministering spirits. SOP says that The Holy Spirit has not been revealed about His nature, but He is a being, a person.

[ChristAdventwitness]

This is total misrepresentation of the truth. I feel really sorry for all those who praise this false teacher!

The prophet writes; "The Word of God is the great detector of error; to it we believe everything must be brought. The Bible must be our standard for every doctrine and preaching. We must study it reverentially. We are to receive no one's opinion without comparing it with the Scriptures. Here is divine authority which is supreme in matters of faith. It is the Word of the living God that is to decide all controversies" (The Ellen G. White 1888 Materials, pp. 44, 45; cf. The Great Controversy, p. 595).

Anti-trinitarians use the Spirit of Prophecy only to get influence, but do they really believe the SOP? Obviously not. When they find their teachings contradict with Bible and SOP, then, they have a most convenient answers for it!

You will also find out the anti-trinitarians believe in polytheism! Before you fall into this deception, please search the real truth!

[reginadiehl]

In reference to 1John 5:7 I think we non-Trinitarian’s are misunderstanding this Biblical passage especially when we include the next verse. Verse 8 reads; “And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.” Here, we see it is talking about three different substances all having unity. At verse 7 we read; “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, (the word is Christ) and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. Again, it is speaking the same as verse 8. Verse 7 is showing us unity of the Father, His Word, (Christ) and their spirit, the Holy Ghost. And YES, THESE THREE ARE ONE. Like Christ tells us, “I and the Father are one.” How are they one? Through Holy Spirit. So, will someone please tell me why we should read this as supporting the Trinity? I just don’t see it when I read it in context.