A Terrible Implication of Calvinism!

The problem of evil is one the arguments most Christians struggle answering. When it comes to the problem of moral evil, it seems that appealing to the libertarian free will of man and God’s permission that men act according to their own volition is the most biblical and logically consistent answer. Nevertheless, Calvin himself rejected this “permissive” language when trying to answer this objection. It seems that the father of Calvinism himself has closed the door to the best answer one can give to the challenge of moral evil. On the other hand, by doing so the Calvinist that holds to Exhaustive Divine Determinism, will have a very difficult time answering the question on how his system avoids the accusation that God is the author of evil. Even Dr. James White seems to falter when pressed on this.

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[dw]

*ON CALVINISM'S USE OF PERMISSION LANGUAGE*

John Calvin did not reject permission language – as can be seen here:

-quote
The devil, and the whole train of the ungodly, are, in all directions, held in by the hand of God as with a bridle, so that they can neither conceive any mischief, nor plan what they have conceived, nor how they may have planned, move a single finger to perpetrate, unless in so far as He *PERMITS* nay, unless in so far as He COMMANDS; that they are not only bound by His fetters but are even FORCED to do Him service." (Institutes I. 17, 11)

What Calvin rejects – is the *STANDARD DEFINITION* for the term “Permission” – which is from the Latin “permettere” To let pass, to let go, to let loose, to give up, to hand over.

What Calvin actually does – is to create an *AD-HOC DEFINITION* for “permission” which allows him to use "permission" as a replacement word for “CAUSE”.

John Calvin
-quote
When [Augustine] uses the term “permission”, *the meaning which he attaches to it* will best appear from a single passage (De Trinity. lib. 3 cap. 4), where he proves that the will of God is the supreme and primary CAUSE of all things….(Institutes 1. 1. 8)

Consequently – Calvinists have historically used “Permit” and “Allow” as replacement words for CAUSE.

1) What Calvin’s god CAUSES – he permits
2) What Calvin’s god DOES NOT CAUSE – he DOES NOT permit.

The Calvinist does not want to say Calvin's god CAUSES evils.
So he uses "Permits" as a replacement word for CAUSE

John Calvin
-quote
The creatures...are so governed by the secret counsel of god, that *NOTHING HAPPENS* but what he has knowingly and willingly decreed. (Institutes 1. 16. 3)

Thus – that which is NOT knowingly and willingly decreed is NOT PERMITTED.

Obviously - this is a deceptive language practice.

But the Calvinist uses misleading language - in order to keep from telling the TRUTH
He knows if he tells the TRUTH about the doctrine - Christianity will reject it.

[georgemoncayo]

Everything that happens in history has been decreed/Predestined before the world was created see Eph 1:11, Proverbs 16:33 and Amos 3:6. And yes even when terrible things happen, I know it's hard for some people to accept but look what happened when David sinned against God and one of Davids punishments was that God told him that he was going to use Davids own son to shame his Father by Absalom Absalom doing something immoral to his Fathers concubines in front of all of Israel, see 2 Samuel 12:11-12 God said "Thus says the Lord, ‘Behold, I will raise up evil against you from your own household; I will even take your wives before your eyes and give them to your companion, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight. Indeed you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, and under the sun." Notice how God said "I WILL DO THIS THING."That was fulfilled in 2 Samuel 16:21-22. Jesus did not die for every single person ever and Jesus didn't die to make people savable. He died to save his elect. In John 17:9 Jesus said that he does not pray for the world. The word world is used in different contexts, in that context he's talking about the non elect. In John 3:16 world means that he purchased people from every tribe, tongue and nation Rev 5:9 and for the children of God scattered abroad John 11:52. Some have been "long beforehand marked out for condemnation" Jude 4 and "appointed to doom." 1 Peter 2:8. About Pharaoh God said “For this VERY PURPOSE I raised you up, to demonstrate My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth.” So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires." Rom 9:17-18. Jesus said "I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight. All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him." Matthew 11:25-27. So, 2 Pet 3:9 the "not willing that any should perish" if you read that letter in context, 2 Pet 1:1 says "To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours." As far as salvation for all men verses, Paul was refuting the false notion of his time that God was only desiring to save just the Jews and 1 Tim 2:2 says to pray "for kings and all who are in authority" because as humans WE DON'T KNOW WHO THE ELECT ARE SO WE PRAY FOR EVERYONE! That's what it means in verse 4 by saying "all men." Amos 3:2 God said "of all the nations of the earth I have only known you." For centuries God passed over the majority of humankind because this verse isn't about knowledge it's about relationship. And it isn't because God foresaw Israel was more righteous then the other nations because sometimes Israel was more sinful then the pagan nations see 2 Kings 21:9. Only those who were predestined to be saved will be see Acts 13:48, Ephesians 1:4-5, Eph 1:11, Romans 9:11-23, John 6:37. 1 Samuel 3:14 God said “Therefore I have sworn to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli’s house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever.” That's Limited atonement.

[GhostBearCommander]

This I assert, more than anything else, is perhaps the best reason why Calvinism is unbiblical:

It is one thing to argue about free will, which is important and all But surprisingly, that's not the worst thing we have to lose if Calvinism becomes prevalent in the Church. No, free will is actually not the biggest issue here.

The worst thing Calvinism does is to blasphemously imply that God is not Good.

It's one thing to call God Sovereign, which He is. It is entirely different to suggest that He ordains all things including child rape.

In essence, the phrase "God is perfectly Good" is the best refutation against Calvinism.

Sadly, most Calvinists don't realize that in their attempt to defend their erroneous definition of "Sovereignty" (i.e Determinism), they have utterly thrown dishonor against God's noble character by implying that He is a monster.

[dw]

*TEN STEPS IN THE CALVINIST'S ROLE OF OBSERVING A MOVIE OF HIMSELF*

1) The Calvinist knows - per the doctrine *NOTHING HAPPENS* that is not knowingly and willingly decreed.

2) The Calvinist knows - he does not have foreknowledge of the *CONTENT* of the decree. But he does know - per the doctrine - that what has been decreed will come to pass infallibly. And he knows it is humanly impossible to resist that which will come to pass infallibly.

3) Thus the Calvinist knows - whatsoever impulses will come to pass within his brain at any instance in time - and bodily movements which will come to pass irresistibly within his body - represent the *CONTENT* of the decree.

4) The cognitive part of the Calvinist brain - is thus created to *OBSERVE* the *CONTENT* of the decree - at the time that it comes to pass - and then later to acknowledge the *CONTENT* of the decree - after it comes to pass.

5) Thus the Calvinist's role - is to function as a *PASSIVE OBSERVER* of impulses decreed to infallibly and irresistibly come to pass within his brain - and movements and actions decreed to infallibly and irresistibly come to pass within his body.

6) Everything that comes to pass - has been *IMMUTABLY FIXED* into a divine script - which his brain and body are to infallibly and irresistibly perform.

7) However - his brain is permitted to theorize that in a different world - the *CONTENT* of the decree could be the exact opposite of the *CONTENT* of the decree - in the world in which he currently exists.

8) But his brain cannot *OBSERVE* two opposing worlds at the same time.

9) He cannot *OBSERVE* his body irresistibly performing action [X] in World-A And also *OBSERVE* his body irresistibly performing action [NOT X] in World-B. His brain can only *OBSERVE* the world in which his brain is placed.

10) Thus the Calvinist's life experience - is limited and subjected to that of *OBSERVING* irresistible impulses decreed concerning his brain - and irresistible movements decreed concerning his body. His life is to *OBSERVE* a movie of impulses and body movements - which he has - no control - no say - and thus no choice - in the matter of.

[Lyleartist]

God created everything. If someone else created evil, God isn't the creator.

[patrolman]

The key to understanding God's relationship with evil is primary and secondary causation.
God is sovereign and in control. Satan, demons, mankind, needs God's permission to do evil. God restrains evil. God uses and/or directs secondary causes to commit evil and uses that evil for His glory and the good of His elect. God is ultimately the primary/first cause of everything including sin, and God makes use of secondary causes to accomplish His eternal purpose without sinning Himself. Ultimate cause vs Immediate cause.

God actively removes His restraint on our evil nature in just the right way to accomplish His decree without violating our will. Thus, we are responsible and it's God who is the primary/first cause of everything that happens

[aletheia]

God is the author of his story. All of it. There’s no other god to write it or create it

[bradleypenrod]

Could you please provide a citation for the Calvin quote?

[Andy-mb]

Calvin the murderer got his teachings from Augustine.

[jonathanchaney]

It's interesting to me that the Calvin quote is taken directly from Soteriology101 blog post, complete with ellipses. Would be helpful to actually read it in proper context. One of the sentences that was conveniently left out: "These things He does in marvelous and ineffable ways, who knows how to execute His just judgments not only upon men’s bodies but in their hearts; who does not make wills evil but uses them as He wills, while being Himself unable to will evil." There's even more I won't post here. But we can better see what Calvin is proposing when actually taken in context.

[bruinranger]

My biggest problem with these anti calvinist ministries is that they misrepresent what calvinists today actually believe. God’s sovereignty is absolute, at the same time, man does still make choices. How does that perfectly sync up for human wisdom? It doesn’t, nor can we truly comprehend and fully understand the trinity, or God Himself. There are things that we as creatures will never understand, but the bible affirms both things are true.

[JohnQPublic]

Tim Stratton has never successfully explained how the Molinists Gods planning, authoring, ordaining, predestining, decreeing and actualizing the space/time continuum [this is known as Divine Providence in theological terms] in Molinists theology is significantly different from the Calvinist Gods planning, authoring, ordaining, predestining, decreeing and actualizing the space/time continuum in Calvinist theology.

The only known difference between the two is that the Calvinist God has directly written mans thoughts, beliefs and actions in the script of Divine Providence and the Molinist God is causing individuals to freely choose what the Molinist God desires and wills the individual to choose by virtue of the minutia of circumstances the Molinist God has intentionally and purposely placed them in via Divine Providence.

Simply stated on Reformed Theology man is a robot and on Molinism man lives under a delusion of free-will since his thoughts, beliefs and actions are manipulated by the force of circumstances established in the Molinist Gods Divine Providence to freely-choose what the Molinist Gods desires and wills he freely-choose.

There is no plausibly explained notion of man freely-choosing in the Craig/Stratton model of Molinism.

“The Grounding Objection”, as it was originally explained and laid out *[not the way Molinists now define it]* successfully falsifies the Craig/Stratton model of Molinism.

[TerrenceTheodore]

I’m always amazed how people are still debating Calvinism. You’d think everyone would bow to the truth by now. I mean, it’s 2023 after all. Sheesh!

[undergroundpublishing]

Quoting Calvin on Calvinism is a fallacious argument. You clearly just don't understand Calvinism. I know you can't see up my nose from there, but I am looking down at you. (Scoff)