Do Catholics REALLY 'Worship' Mary w/ Fr. Gregory Pine O.P.

Fr. Pine tells Matt why he isn't bothered by saying, "Catholics Worship Mary."



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[melissawilcox]

Thank you for this one! My in-laws say I’m going to hell because I’m Catholic and this is always the excuse they give. Thank you for giving me the ability to counter their accusations with facts!

[sentjojo]

It took me over a year to piece together what Fr. Pine did here in less than five mins

[OurLadysTheology]

This is the problem with the English language.

[mariawells]

This was an excellent explanation Father Pine.

[williampeters]

I don’t have a problem with the idea of prayers to saints as much as how it tends to work out in practice in the laity. Phrases like the “queen of heaven” among others aren’t helpful in distinguishing divinity from humanity. I wouldn’t have any issues with it except that it seems to elevate her to a similar status as Jesus if we say He is our king. I believe Mary is the most blessed of women and should be revered but she is a finite human. We are all infinitely less than Him. I wish that instead of defending confusing language Catholics would change it to reflect what their teachings are. I can sympathize with a lot of things being caricatured by critics, but I feel like a lot of it is self inflicted considering their own laity often embody the straw man arguments due to how confusing it is.

[LaserFace]

Here's a nerdy comparison, but when I re-read Fellowship of the Ring recently, I found Gimli's attitude towards Galadriel to be very relatable to a lot of converts' attitudes towards Mary; He starts out thinking she's some witch, an abominable thing that snares innocent victims into worshipping her, a distraction off the straight and narrow path. But then he meets her, and sees what she really is, and he finally "gets it". The stories were half-true -- he DID get bewitched, he fell in love with true beauty, and those who fall in love with beauty can only honor the one who created that beauty all the more as they praise her. And from there on, he becomes her unlikely champion, defending and loving her, because he knows how bad his misconceptions were before, and only wants others to understand the beauty he's been honored to witness.
Or maybe I'm just pulling a self-insert here, that's definitely how it was for me, haha

[lilheven]

Right at 6:10, I can't tell you how many times I have to discourage exactly that. I know so many Catholics that attribute so many things of their faith and salvation to Mary. When I hear them talk about Christianity, I barely even hear the word Jesus. I like Bishop Strickland's approach. Let's put Jesus more in everything including our language.

[superdavidss]

Our Lady is the Speculus Iusticiae, the Mirror of Justice. The light of God is reflected on her so we can understand Him better. Paraphrasing Fr. Chad Ripperger

[BernardoRojasdeLuna]

They go on their knees from Puebla to Mexico City, carrying their images, sometimes hitting themselves, on her birthday,
They pray to her, get tattoos from her, venerate her, and put images of her on their things to protect them.
Idols have eyes, yet they don't see. And people who worship idols become like them, having eyes, they can't see.

[ivanabacicdonadic]

We pray to Mary and the saints asking them to pray for us. Not more or less than that. Just as we ask our family or friends to pray for us. And it works, sincere prayer always does.

[HumanDignity]

That's a good point about Protestants removing the Eucharist, thus making it harder for them to distinguish between sacrifice and adoration versus veneration. It's been baffling to to me to hear Protestants say Catholics need to spend more time with Jesus, because I see the crucifix front and center at every Catholic Church, the stations of the cross at every Catholic Church, and the entire Mass centered around Him and all of us receiving Him at every Mass. Plus, all of the time spent with Him in adoration and seeking his forgiveness in the sacrament of reconciliation and doing penance. A lot of Protestant churches don't have any imagery of Jesus and don't receive Him in the Eucharist, nor do they offer adoration or the sacrament of reconciliation, so it makes sense that they would have a hard time distinguishing between veneration of Mary and the Saints versus sacrifice and adoration for God. It's also worth pointing out that the rosary is a tool for meditating of the mysteries of Jesus. While we are saying the prayers, which include the Our Father, O Dear Jesus, and Glory Be, along with the Hail Marys, we are contemplating different mysteries of Jesus's life, death, and resurrection. Even though there are a lot of Hail Mary prayers, the rosary is ultimately about Jesus.

[nightyew]

Thanks for talking about this, Fr. Pine. I have been thinking about this very topic lately. I think the confusion is that worship and pray can have different meanings in different contexts. I think it is like the word love. When I say I love pizza, I mean I find it to be a delicious treat. When I say I love my son, I mean much more than that.

I love your point that because Protestants lack Eucharistic worship, the highest peak of worship available to Catholics is missing from their experience.

[stephaniedorothy]

I’m asking this question with a humble heart. On the Rosary, why are there more Hail Mary’s, than our Fathers? God is a jealous God, so the whole concept of praying the Rosary seems unbiblical. Could you explain how it’s beneficial? I honestly can’t make peace with it in my Spirit.

[sandstorm]

Everything about Mary is because of God, for God, and points to God ❤

[MBarberfanlife]

I think this issue is more nuanced than most Catholics and most Protestants let on. Is it possible to honor Mary without idolizing her? Of course, that's possible. Is it also possible to idolize Mary? Of course, that's possible.

[Pac]

Let's take a moment to appreciate how awesome Fr Pine's beard is. I wish mine could be as nice 😊

[claytonhall]

In the Hail Mary prayer, it ends with “…pray for us now and at the hour of our death. Amen.”

If she’s a deity, then we would not ask her to pray for us. Additionally, who are we asking Mary to pray to on our behalf? Her son, Jesus Christ.

[warriorandscholar]

Jesus didn't seem to have a special veneration for Mary...for instance here in Mark:

"While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without,
desiring to speak with thee.

But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother."

[TesterBoy]

Where in scripture does it ever mention that Mary or the other saints are omniscient? Because to hear the prayers for those of us on earth this would be a necessary faculty. They are now worshipping Jesus into eternity. The priest who defines two forms of worship is using artificial, carnal reasoning to create a false definition of "worship' to justify a practice that is not of God. Were the saints in heaven were to come down to Earth they would confront these two and say, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this scroll. Worship God!” Revelation 22:9. It is heartbreaking but surely true that too many Roman Catholics know neither the Word of God (the scriptures) nor the power of God (God Himself). -- former Romanist.

[tmlavenz]

4:00 There would be no Mary to say Yes to our salvation without her parents, going back and back to Abraham and all the rest. This logic amounts to saying: were it not for anything that happened remotely related to my present knowledge of Christ, I'd be damned.

The most telling comment in the video comes right at the end though, when the host says: 6:30 _We shouldn't be afraid to say things we don't actually mean._ Yup: if it sounds "lovely, " that's enough for the Caths.