How Gentle Parenting Hurts Kids | Guest: Abigail Shrier | Ep 963

Today we're joined by author Abigail Shrier to discuss her newest book, "Bad Therapy: Why the Kids Aren't Growing Up." She dives into the unknown dangers of therapy for children, the differences between worry and anxiety, depression, and sadness and why therapy is different for adults. She also explains the dark motives that fuel some therapists and inevitably cause harm to the family unit as a whole. We discuss whether gentle parenting is a valid parenting style and the dangers of manipulative empathy. Abigail answers a few of the most pressing questions about mental health, such as: Is therapy the "responsible" thing to do? What is "social emotional learning," and why is it in our children's schools? And is the widespread use of antidepressants an example of social contagion?

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Timecodes:

00:00 Intro
01:30 “Bad Therapy”
03:00 "Irreversible Damage"
04:30 Side effects of therapy
09:00 How therapy is different for adults
17:40 Group therapy
20:47 Therapy in schools
27:00 Empathy
36:25 Gentle parenting & its effects
58:34 Are there good things about therapy?

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How Gentle Parenting Hurts Kids | Guest: Abigail Shrier | Ep 963

[christyathome]

Homemaking, homeschooling mom of four for eighteen years now. My best advice is to be loving with your kids but FIRM. Mean what you say and don’t feel guilty for saying no. Your kid doesn’t need you to be their therapist, they need you to love them enough to train them. Ignore the trends, and do what comes naturally as a mom.

[valeriegoldstein]

I’m 61 with 2 adult daughters who are self sufficient, helpful, others-centered women in their 20’s. We taught them that feelings are not reliable; you can’t stop them from rising up. What you can do is know right from wrong and choose. Choices are in your control, you can make choices no matter how you feel. Usually the choice to just choose to do the next right thing will bring feelings into line. Choice is the leader, feelings the follower; not the other way around.

[softeningheartstherapy]

As a therapist, I found myself questioning the field as a whole because of the risks and potentials of harm and just the amount of power given therapists, so I stopped practicing for a while to try and figure out what the heck it's all about. Thankful for Abigail's work, it confirms a lot of what I was just sensing about the field honestly

[rachelguadamuz]

As a Christian therapist I appreciate this talk. Many of us faith based therapists/counselors agree with what you are saying.

[ThomasSmith]

Hello brothers and sisters. I would just like to recommend that everyone read the book ‘Raising Warriors: Preparing Your Children For a Godly Life’. Reading that book was the best desicion I ever made.

[cameronmerrill]

The conversation on empathy was eye opening for me. Love these women.

[Frozentamale]

I think the whole thing is that they'll grow out of their feelings, so don't make it the center of everything. Consistent and firm parenting will win the race.

[ashlynnvickers]

As a therapist, I agree with a lot of Abigail’s position (not relying on DSM diagnoses & conceptualization of them; focusing only on feelings). I do however want to make a case for those of us who look to help clients & families & do not adopt many of the principles she mentions. As a therapist
who works with kids (as well as teens & adults), I require meeting with the parents of kids because really we’re treating the system (the family). Often there’s a lot of work to be done with the parents (e.g., helping a mother understand why she feels guilty giving consequences to her children or even over-correction with harsh punishment, no grace). Typically it’s working with the root of the problem, so that we have better long-term outcomes.
Also, there are many children who come in who have relational/attachment trauma (neglect of parent(s); abuse history; foster care) who need to develop a feelings vocabulary to ask for needs. Most trauma based therapists know kids need structure, particularly those who have a trauma history, so not all therapists align with lack of boundaries & structure. They need an adult to be reliable & unchanging much like our reliance on God.

[valeriegoldstein]

Kids are DESPERATE for a leader. If parents won’t lead, you can be sure someone else will be happy to fill the void.

[PJhasthedeets]

I thought my parents were awful when I was a teenager up until I had a child in my late 30’s. I went to therapy for a number of years and instead of working on my own real issues the therapist blamed my mom, determined she was a narcissist and convinced me to not be in contact with her. My mom isn’t a narcissist, she was protective and wanted the best for me with tough love and now that I’m a mom I totally understand her. I don’t agree with every thing she said and did but I get it and I love my mom more than I ever did.

[Veracityseeker]

I got so lucky. I have real mental health issues, due to childhood abuse, genetics, and multiple health issues. When I started therapy as a teen in 1994; my therapist saw that my mother was the issue, but still held me accountable for my own feelings. People validated my trauma, but told me that I was responsible for my reactions and healing. I cannot imagine how bad off I would be, if I was a teen in therapy now! Therapy and family discipline are supposed to help you to become able to emotionally regulate and integrate with society. I LOVED the therapy agd and 12 step programs, because I received tools, and tough love. Im sad to see things that saved me ruined with a woke mentality.

[Nadiahope]

Such a great conversation. I was in the new age and loved gentle parenting... My child was crazy... Getting everything she wants, pandering to her every emotion, I was exhausted. When I came to faith God completely changed my view on how I should parent... Thank God whilst my girls are still young. Do not spare the rod (discipline) changed everything. My home is a much more stable place and I'm a single parent of 2 little ones!! I can't pander to both their constant emotions all day it's ridiculous. So grateful this us being highlighted here.

[harpazoseason]

Preschool teacher here... This might be the most important, culturally relevant conversation ever ...

[jocelynhanna]

I've been in therapy since 2009(since I was 27). I have found that it's helped me to grow up, and helped me think of how my actions effect others. I think that one needs a balance between self-awareness & outward-facing issues being dealt with.

[jaynejansen]

Absolutely agree with this! Thank you Allie for talking about this. We are on Australia and this is being taught and pushed in the schools. I have 3 son's. One of my son's was a mess, so anxious couldn't get him out the car or to stay in the classroom. The school wanted me to get him a psychologist and get him labelled as adhd, autistic etc. They has us using occupational therapy and all sorts. They made me feel like I had no idea how to parent, that I was stupid.

My youngest was in his first year of school (5yrs & 6yr olds) and most days evacuated out of his class due to another child's violent behaviour. My son was bitten, a chair thrown at him, just to name a few. The school would not discipline the child but remove everyone else!

My eldest was I last year of primary school (12yr olds) and one day they sprung a coming out party for a child changing their gender. They did not let any of us parents know beforehand because that was what the child wanted. I was removed from volunteering because we spoke up about it.
We now homeschool our children and have for 2yrs, they are all thriving and doing well. My middle son no longer has anxiety or any learning difficulties, he is a different child out of that awful environment.

[jackieconnolly]

Abigail Shrier is brilliant. I appreciate her curiosity about our society's problems and her willingness to honestly investigate. She is so articulate and has a lot of wisdom. She makes a very convincing case here.

[cm]

My parents had a rule that I was not allowed to spend the night at a friend's house if that friend had an older brother. I often felt left out, restricted, and hurt. Now, hearing about things that happened to friends of mine, I am so grateful for their firmness in that particular (and other) decision.

[sarahtedesco]

I've seen effective child therapy using cognitive/behavioral techniques that focuses on coping/calming techniques, identifying emotions, and ensuring that emotions are discussed in a healthy manner. My kids have learned to express their emotions openly, but without the "YOU NEVER" or "YOU ALWAYS" but rather, "Right now, I'm feeling X about Y actions." As a kid, I was raised to gaslight myself that I was fine with poor treatment or that I wasn't feeling what I was feeling or that my emotions weren't valid for whatever reason. It's been a blessing to have given my kids the opportunity to tune into themselves, self regulate, and then express themselves in a healthy manner. Oh, and we still ground them from screens when grades are down or there's ugly behavior on their end, lol.

[Rosie_C]

My parents gave me the best therapy. (I’m being facetious. They were just regular old-fashioned people trying their best to follow the Bible.)
I remember being young, 6 or 7 years old, and it was one of my chores to go outside and water our two raised bed gardens every day. They felt about 30’ long to me back then, and I had to wind the hose back up nicely when I was done. It was in one of those quiet moments by myself that I first seriously contemplated that I needed a personal Saviour.

[ralieghhm]

As someone with early childcare experience, younger children especially need strong guidance and rules-they need to hear the word NO! We had so many behavioral issues from little ones, violent acts towards others and lying. When brought to parents, they accused teachers of lying or at the very best they’d say that they would “work on it” at home. Then come back the next day and tell teachers very loudly, “ohhh if little timmy hits today we wont get that big fire truck toy he wants” as if that’s going to work.
Gentle parenting seems like a big excuse to not have to really parent, but to just band aid the problem under the disguise of “feelings”