Calvinism vs Provisionism

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[christiancarner]

It seems every time I listen to a Calvanist speak my brain starts to feel like it is decaying.

[HandsOfPraiseYouTube]

Verbal Plenary Inspiration is a Good example of how God's Sovereign Will and man's Free will coexist.

[brandonleejudy]

Yes calvinism is double talk absolutely

[coachmarc]

Thanks Braxton for mentioning my super chat near the end of the talk. I'd love for Leighton to comment on it. "Does God command us to love people that he doesn't love enough to save them from eternal destruction when he could easily do that?

[richardcoords]

13:48: That gets to the heart of the Calvinist inconsistency.

How do Calvinists deny "equal ultimacy" while affirming exhaustive, meticulous determinism? Answer: Plead mystery. It's what John Calvin did.

[Searchgodstruthhomestead]

Calvinists do with Pelagian what this atheistic scientist did with Ernst haeckel. She said that she knows that it has been proven that Ernst haeckel was fraudulent in his drawings on embryology. But then she goes on to say that even though we know those drawings are inaccurate the overall image that they represent is accurate.
I almost fell out of my chair when she said that, but Calvinists do the same thing with pelagian. Even though many Calvinists admit that pelagian has been demonized and that he didn't actually teach what he is being accused of teaching, the overall image of what they have been taught to believe that he taught is accurate even though he never actually said what he was accused of saying.

[ACTSVERSE]

I love how every Calvinist who freely decides to start a podcast, freely decides to join a podcast, freely decides to prepare for the podcast with notes and quotes, freely decides when and to whom to interact with on the freedom of choice.

Meticulous determinism isn't so much a argument anyone needs to argue against as it is a bald absurdity you only need to constantly point out in the actions of the people who propagate such foolishness.

[thirdplace]

Calvinists believe the same God who taught us the Good Samaritan parable is a God who "passes over" His enemies? 🙄

[scottthong]

Yup, as Braxton says those hardened will get their chance to believe - and they do, in Acts 3!

[oldglory]

If you really want expose the weakness of the Calvinist position, emphasize the humility of the Lord Jesus Christ as expressed in His death and resurrection. Jesus said “I and the Father are one” and Hebrews tells us that Jesus is the “radiance of God’s glory and the EXACT representation of His nature”. Combining this reality with the truth revealed in Philippians, “Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.” This totally dismantled the Calvinist’s view of God, for it is because of His great love wherewith He loved us that God laid aside His sovereignty in the person and work of Jesus Christ, for NO other reason than that He loves us. This is a saying worthy of all acceptance, “While we were YET sinners, Christ died for the ungodly”. For those who truly know from experience that they were formerly alienated from the Life of God and without hope in the world, this is an earthshaking revelation which is contrary to the Calvinist teaching. The Apostle Paul was fixated on the reality that “Christ loved me and died for me” and “Christ loved me and gave Himself for me”. Unfortunately I have never heard a Calvinist talk like this an any personal kind of way. Yes, I have heard them teach about this in a cerebral way as they go through their expository lessons from the Bible, but Paul seemed to know this on a personal, heart to heart, spirit to Holy Spirit way, yet he always longed for more. In closing, I wonder if we as a whole in the church have simply drifted over the centuries away from what Our Father really intends for us. Maybe it is just easier to hide behind an impenetrable wall of doctrines than it is to live a life of faith in Christ expressing itself through love toward others. May God help us to see more clearly who He is and what He is like, as well as the purpose He has for us in the short time He permits us to dwell on the earth. Grace and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 🎚🙏🏼😇

[scottthong]

The hardening issue is also why Mike Winger rejects Total Depravity.

[patrickbarnes]

It isn't just that there is no meaningful difference between double predestination and "passing over", it's that there truly is no difference.

"God determines whatsoever comes to pass" -- if you affirm this, then you affirm double predestination. Saying "God doesn't actively condemn the reprobate, He just passes over them" is just word salad. It's literally meaningless within the context of a determined universe. "Elect" and "reprobate" mean nothing in this context. What I mean is like if you determine someone to drive 5 blocks north then 2 blocks east then 1 block north and the person ends up at the grocery store, it is entirely without meaning to say "I didn't determine you to drive to the grocery store, I never said anything about a grocery store". If you've determined exactly where the person will steer their car then you've determined where they will go. It doesn't matter if you named the destination or not. Whether you say God destines people to damnation or whether you say God passes over them and leaves them in their damned state are just two different labels for the same actions of God. The method by which God would predestine someone to Hell would be by not giving them grace. When God is passing by a lost soul, God is not giving them grace. It's exactly the same thing. It's not even a distinction without a difference. It isn't even a distinction. It's like calling your pet a dog versus calling your pet a canis. It's the same thing and Calvinism shouldn't get away with swapping labels and pretending it's kinder and gentler if you call it something different. It's not.

[ClauGutierrezY]

39:15 I don't think I will these amount of gymnastic until the next Olympics.

[dw]

James White
-quote
[In Calvinism] If it *ENDS UP* that you are under the wrath of god, it is because you’ve rejected his provision for you, and you are justly punished for your sins.

And - If a driver’s car *ENDS UP* neglecting to stop at a red light and kills a girl walking across the street, then that driver’s car is justly blamed for causing a death.

Do you notice what is being OBFUSCATED in both statements?
In Calvinism there is only one REAL driver!
Calvin’s god never lets go of the wheel.

[jslaveofchrist]

God is morally accountable for giving the good thing called free will, but HE is not morally responsible for all the evil we do with our freedom Norman Giesler

[Kenneth-nVA]

And Israel had no choice in God “ choosing them” to be His one people ...(Exo 4:22  You must say to Pharaoh, ‘This is what the LORD has said, “Israel is my son, my firstborn, )... Not one nation declared, “ I think we will become another nation of Israel “ wonder why???

[ACTSVERSE]

Cognitive dissonance. God didn't "pass over" in Calvinism; He actively reprobated. Double predestination is de facto EQUAL ULTIMACY. Tyler clearly isn't versed enough in Calvinism to understand this fundamental fact.

[HosannaInExcelsis]

has someone a clear definition of what the provisionalist camp believes "grace" is? trying to understand the argument, but I see that Leighton Flowers uses grace differently sometimes. Sometimes it seems like it is the gospel, but I think that this is more encompassing a concept like that.

[KISStheSON...]

The Calvinist denies the spirit.
We are made of more than flesh.
The flesh lusts after sin and falls short.
The flesh is weak, but the spirit is willing.
The flesh got us locked up in stubbornness but by God's grace, He opened the prison door.
Will you remain in stubbornness or will you come out through the door named Jesus?
The gospel is sent to call us to come out through the righteousness of Christ Jesus.
The Gospel reveals God's goodness and grace so that we might TURN from the power of Satan who persuaded us to fall into temptation.
We got ourselves put in prison and God has literally opened the door...COME OUT!
Please! 😊

[trevoradams]

I had a question about judicial hardening. It seems in both cases (the Provisionist and the Calvinist) that Gods act of further hardening doesn’t make sense. The Calvinist says that men are born totally depraved so further hardening seems excessive and incoherent. But it seems you have the same problem how I understand you. It seems that if pharaoh and the Israelites had grown hardened that Gods further hardening was unnecessary as well. Or would you say that the nation of Israel really could of as a whole turned and believed if Jesus had not spoken to them in parables? If so, it seems in some way wrong that God would do that.