Dr. Leighton Flowers of Soteriology101: Calvinism Vs. Provisionism

[darrennelson]

I think Provisionism is the closest to the plain straightforward reading of Scripture. I'm so thankful for Dr. Flowers' attempt to get us back to a biblical balance between the simplicity of the Gospel, the sovereignty of God (defined as God's supremacy as authority), and the God-given dignity of humankind, without all the hyper-spiritualization associated with Calvinistic systems.

[Ephesians-rzzp]

Libertarian freedom is impossible. The Bible says our very existence is being held together by God.

28 for “‘In him we live and move and have our being’;  as even some of your own poets have said,  “‘For we are indeed his offspring.’

Acts 17:28 | ESV

How do Provisionists get around God having foreknowledge before he created man? Wouldn’t that mean everything was determined? Guess that makes Provisionists determinists too. 🤷‍♂️

9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,

2 Timothy 1:9 | ESV

[kimosabi]

It’s sad/funny that we miss so much and we’re all steeped in heresy but we can argue our contrived nonsense for hours.

[pavlogris]

I believe God ordains things to happen. If you look at Joseph in the Bible, when he was betrayed, he later said to his brothers, “You meant it for evil, and God meant it for Good.” Nothing happens for no reason or in vain. As a Christian, you cannot have peace if you don’t think that God doesn’t have the world in his control. (Habakkuk)Why should a Christian have faith in a God who doesn’t know the future? If God doesn’t know my future and the plan he has for my life, then I shouldn’t have faith in him. I am dependent every day on God and his provision.

If we had free will, we would go insane. I believe that the people in God’s passive wrath get the free will to do whatever they want, and they later fall on their sword because of their insanity. God keeps people sane by limiting them. The level of freedom that God already gave us is amazing and perfectly within God's guidelines. We are dependent on God, and God is independent of us.

[edsnyder]

Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatest of His Power, towards US who believe, according to the working of His Mighty Power!

[lawrencestanley]

At 3:30, Leighton has a problem with God ordaining that people believe lies? Why? One example is seen in 2 Chronicles 18:18-22. Let's look at some other interesting incidents...
 God opposes hatred toward His people (Genesis 12:3, Exodus 20:13, Matthew 5:21-22), and yet He ordained that His people be hated in Egypt (Psalm 105:25— “He (that is, Yahweh) turned their heart to hate his people, and to deal craftily with his servants.”)
 He hardens Pharaoh’s heart (Exodus 4:21), but He commands him to let His people go (Exodus 5:1; 8:1).
 He makes plain that it is sin for David to take a military census of his people, and yet He ordains that he do just that (2 Samuel 24:1; 24:10).
 He opposes adultery (Exodus 20:14), but He ordains that Absalom should lie with his father’s wives (2 Samuel 12:11, 16:21-22).
 He forbids rebellion and insubordination against the king (Romans 13:1, 1 Samuel 15:23), but He ordained that Jeroboam and the ten tribes should rebel against Rehoboam (1 Kings 12:15-16).
 His Law includes “you shall not commit adultery” (Exodus 20:14), and yet in 2 Samuel 12:11-12, He states, “‘Behold, I will raise up evil against you from your own household; I will even take your wives before your eyes and give them to your companion, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight. Indeed you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, and under the sun.’” This declaration of God that He would raise up the evil of adultery against David was fulfilled in 2 Samuel 16:20-22 through the counsel of Ahithophel.
 He opposes murder (Exodus 20:13), but He ordains the murder of His Son (Acts 2:22-23, 4:27-28, 13:27-29).

[boughtwithaprice]

His idea of a free will is layered onto every scripture he tries to explain. This has become a presupposition to him. John 8:30 area goes against his free will position. And now with his presupposition of free will his videos of John 6, Romans 8, Romans 9 and others is just beholden to this free will concept he holds. He says jokingly that his concept of free will is not a super power but it does have power superly over all his scripture understandings. And he has placed this free will over even Gods ability to change the heart of man. This is said by his talks about Calvinism and scripture and is a short saying in James White intro of his show specifically the radio free Geneva intro. By the way I’m not a Calvinist but see no issues with the “S” Tulip. S stands for sovereignty. You asked for thoughts.

[SlaveckMoraru]

Like Subscribe and turn on the notification icon, Please!

[pinknoise]

Leighton chooses to point his finger directly at Calvinist brothers as if they are the villain. The Provisionist method of teaching is hostile to brotherly love. Therefore it cannot be admired.

[edsnyder]

The preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery of the Gospel has been clearly made known unto All Nations (All Men). It is the Doctrine Of Christ, that Paul uses to bring Us (THE CHURCH), unto the unity of the faith, in whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named! Jesus himself clearly teaches the reconciliation of All Things! 2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things they understand not, and shall utterly perish in their own corruption. These tares, the children of the wicked one wrest the things pertaining to salvation unto their own destruction. They have departed from the Doctrine Of Christ! Jesus came to divide the wheat from the tares! Jesus called these people out for who they truly were! Jesus cannot lie! The tares stand in opposition and wilfull disbelief of things that have been clearly made known, like predestination and election. Predestination and election are both inseparable from the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery!

[pinknoise]

Leighton assumes libertarian freewill into his argument yet he has never given a solid example of where his stands. He loosely uses the Boethian model while also stating God learns and God is outside of time. He has zero ground to offer for stability. He supports both Molinism and Open Theism which a fundamentally opposed. His only goal is to deter people from studying Reformed teaching and finding it true and Biblical. Which it is.

[lawrencestanley]

No, the Bible never talks about man’s freedom in the sense of having the ability of contrary choice. Rather, whenever scripture speaks of man’s freedom, it is in reference to Christ setting an individual free from his slavery to sin (cf. Galatians 2:4, 5:1, 13, Hebrews 2:14-15, John 8:32-36, Romans 6:6, 16-20, 8:15, 2 Corinthians 3:17). But, there is no freedom for man once he is set free from sin, for either he is a slave to sin, or he is a slave to God (Romans 6:17-18, 22, 1 Corinthians 7:22, 1 Peter 2:16, Ephesians 6:6, Colossians 3:24). Since a slave is not the master of his own will, but instead does the will of his master who owns him, and scripture says that the slave desires to do his master’s will, cf. Psalm 40:8, John 8:44, and that his desire is from God (1 Corinthians 15:10, Philippians 2:13), therefore any notion that suggests that man has a free will in the libertarian sense (the ability of contrary choice) is a false notion, antagonistic to the teaching of scripture.

[evelinabugaychuk]

You had Leighton flowers on! Awesome! Thanks for sharing this discussion, i have to agree with @pinknoise on this one

[michealmatt]

A hypothetical Calvinist proclamation of the Gospel to a crowd of people. I am not saying a Calvinist would even do this or that they should proclaim the Gospel this way. I do however think it is consistent with the Calvinistic system(TULIP). Please hear me out, but not in anger, please.
... Calvinist preacher addressing the crowd.
"Before I began to tell you today of what our loving God has done for you and done for me in Christ Jesus. Before I open up the Word to tell you of our God who so loved the world and how in the giving of His Son, His shed blood, His dying and rising from the dead, just what our Awesome God did to reconcile you to Himself for all eternity. Before we dive into that. I do want you all to know that some of you will believe in Christ Jesus, whether its today, tomorrow, a week, a month or even on your death bed. God will irresistibly draw you to Himself, He will effectually cause you to believe the Gospel that we are about to look into from scripture. For He has elected you before you were even born, He chose you, that is why I can with confidence say you will believe in the Gospel, the good news of Jesus. But some of you will not believe, you will remain in your hard hearted and sin loving state. There is no hope for you to believe.For God, before the foundation of the world, before you were born, before you did any thing good or evil. Our loving Heavenly Father did not choose you, He did not elect you to be in Christ, He passed over you. So for those whom God has passed over, you will never believe the Gospel, for He did not predestine you to come to a saving faith in Jesus. You should also know, those who were not chosen, who are not of His elect, you will still bring our lovingly Heavenly Father Glory, for He has pre-determined that you will be a vessel of wrath, fit for eternal descruction. I do not claim to know those of you in this crowd that will or will not believe and with that being said lets look into this Gospel of our Loving God"

[pinknoise]

The Arminian and the Calvinist have much in common. The Provisionist has little to no common ground to stand or even within their own movement.

[pinknoise]

Leighton doesn’t teach of the necessity of grace. This should worry his followers. He has slanderously called the grace by which we are saved “pixie dust”, “zapping” and “hocus pocus”. When I read the scripture I find this grace amazing and can only praise God for it, unlike Leighton.