The Filioque Heresy (Global Catechism)

Father Josiah Trenham

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Our Newest Lecture Series:
Demonology: Understanding & Winning the Spiritual Battle

The study of the Church’s demonology is a part of basic catechism and Christian instruction. The Scriptures are replete with teaching on the dark powers. Additionally, it is impossible to appreciate the magnitude of the saving deeds of our Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, without understanding how He, and He alone, has conquered Satan and destroyed his works. Lastly, Christians are called to fight and win in the spiritual war, and for this reason, it is essential that believers understand their enemies and their tactics. Toward this end, Father Josiah presents in these lectures in-depth studies of the Scriptures, Divine Services, and pedagogy of great saints and teachers on the subject of Satan and spiritual battle.

Lecture titles include:

Lecture #1 Jesus and Satan

Lecture #2 Demonology in the Baptismal Rite and the Divine Liturgy

Lecture #3 Gaining Mastery of Satan: The Life of St. Anthony the Great

Lecture #4 How to Win the Spiritual Battle according to St. John of the Ladder

Lecture #5 Engaging the Unseen Warfare: Fr. Lorenzo Scupoli and St. Nicodemos of the Holy Mountain

Lecture #6 C. S. Lewis’ Screwtape Letters and Demonic Warfare in the 21st Century Falling West

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[jeffdavis-ncsn]

I'm considering converting to Orthodoxy. I grew up in baptist and non-denominational churches, and never once in them did I ever hear a metaphysical, comprehensive understanding of the Holy Trinity. It was always just explained at face value and we had to accept it because of dogma. It's the difference between saying the sky is blue vs understanding why the sky is blue. After listening to Father Josiah and other Orthodox Fathers, I now have a true understanding of the concept. There seems to be a lot of richness in Orthodoxy.

[Metascetic]

Coming from the protestant world, all of a sudden this clicked for me

I had never heard, for 30 years, about the original creed without the filioque

All it took was hearing it once, plus the explanation for it, for me to ultimately turn to Orthodoxy

[justanotherlikeyou]

Thank you Father for standing for the Orthodox Truth. Long live Orthodoxy☦️

[soulfulplaya]

The Father is my hope.
the Son is my refuge,
the holy spirit my protection.
Holy trinty Glory to you..
Bless you Father Peter and world family...

[KonstanzArrens]

There seems to be a renaissance of Orthodoxy going on abroad, especially in America, both in rediscovering its spirituality and in attracting new souls to its way and its life.

[sfappetrupavelandrei]

Just a reminder for my Orthodox brothers: try to be respectful and kind with non-Orthodox people who visit this channel. 😊

[alvinf]

Well, what I have a problem with is not "filioque, " but "procedit." But, I believe we need to wait until we get to heaven to learn about these details and refrain from calling each other "heretics" unnecessarily.

[panagenesis]

Happy Feast of The Dormition of The Theotokos!☦⛪🕯

[giantrotatingcarrot]

Fascinating! Having been born into and raised in the Roman Catholic Church this was never taught and now I know why. I left the Roman Catholic Church a long time ago and have traveled within the Protestant tradition for many years. Now I have discovered recently the Orthodox tradition and everything that I read and hear just rings true. Blessings to all.

[Chrisc-snuh]

Im currently reading, Apodictic treatise on the procession of the holy spirit. It makes it so very clear why the filioque is a huge mistake! I highly recommend it. I am in awe at the brilliance of st Gregory!

[redeemedzoomer]

The Orthodox have some great arguments but this one is really bad.
"If the Spirit is from Father and Son then you have 2/3 persons sharing the same quality"
The problem is that you have that either way. In the Orthodox view, the Son and the Holy Spirit share the common hypostatic property of depending on the Father for their exitance.
That's why St. Anselm's version of the hypostatic properties is correct.
Father: "God from whom God exists"
Son: "God from God" + "God from whom God exists"
Spirit: God from God"

[comsortecomvoce]

Catholic here: obs: i love you guys, Viva Cristo Rei!

Hello, for all those here, there is 2 arguments in saint thomas aquinas writings that made me understand the filioque importance,
first one: the Creed nicea-constitopolitan was created strategically thought to fight each hesery of his time, so every single word put there was to combat the relevant heresys at the time, and because the filioque question was not in debate it was not explicit put on the creed, just when the nestorian hesery started to gain power and say that Christ didn't had the same nature as the Father, they also start to say that because of it the Holy Spirit didn't came from the Son, but just the Fatherso because of this the hierarchy saw the necessity to include explicitly this truth that was implicit on the Creed already(because the Creed was write in Greek and had no negation against the filioque attribute of the Holy Trinity. This was included to combat the heresies like in the previous councils.

Second argument: The Holy Trinity has the same essence, because they i God in essence, but at the same time in this essence exist 3 persons, so the material (essence) of the Holy Trinity is the same, therefore what makes the persons distinct is the relation (order, i understood like that) between them, therefore if we affirm that the Holy Spirit came just from the Father and not from the Son, it means that they are the same person, otherwise there is 2 persons only in the trinity, but this isn't true, so thats why the Holy Spirit comes from the Father and the Son, and the Son come from the Father, because now they have distinct relations therefore are distinct persons, and i like to relate it wkth atoms, they have the same essence, but in other to them create something totally distinct in frequency vibration and energy dissipation they will ordering themselves in a different way, so they still continue to be atoms, but with different characteristics.

The point that you brought in diminish the Holy Spirit in the Holy Trinity doesn't even make sense to me, because we are talking about the same essence (principal) and a perfect relationship, how can something that is perfect and infinity be diminished by his order of origin?

[ApostolicEchoes]

Only the Orthodox have the true Trinity. Catholics have a Modalist “Trinity” with their absolute divine simplicity and filioque. Protestants have a Nestorian one with their penal substitution. God Bless the Orthodox Church of Christ. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us sinners!

[melroycorrea]

The Catholics don't speak of the Son as the origin of the Spirit, but as the one who recieves the Spirit from the Father and through whom, the Spirit is given to the world. It is in this understanding, that the Spirit is of the Father and the Son.

[thevonschmittousvonschmitt]

Saint Gregory of Palomas has written in depth on this and other topics concerning the Latins. Fr Chris Moody translated this into English and I believe its available on uncut Orthodox press. Fr. Chris Moody has a youtube channel where he discusses the Filioque that was quite edifying also.

[watchaddicts]

The Filioque sort of seems to make the Holy Spirit a subordinate errand boy. Christ makes this crystal clear—I will send The Comforter, who proceeds from The Father. Period.

[d.o.]

Very interesting, but i assume the other side also have their own theological approach to the topic, it would have been nice if you could have addressed these in your answer, for example the biblical verses they use to support their doctrine and how you would refute them.

[carlosz.]

Was the son not given all from the father? Including the principle that the spirit is begotten from the father? Would that not be a heresy to say the Father has not given everything to the son including the spirit?

[XyzWse]

That the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father, the Scripture repeatedly and formally declares. For example, "But when the Comforter comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me." (John 15:26; cf. 14:16–26 Mt 10:20 1 Cor 2:10–12 1 Thes 4:8 1 Jn 4:13.) But it also clearly teaches that the Spirit proceeds from the Son.

a) The Scriptures frequently and consistently refer to the Holy Spirit as the Spirit of the Son (2 Cor 3:7, Gal 4:6 Rom 8:9–11 Phil 1:19 1 Pet 1:11 Act 16:6), thus establishing a constant and clear reference to the Son. But in the Divinity, there can be no other constant and clear reference between the persons except that of origin; interchangeability exists among the others because of the absolute simplicity of God. Therefore, if it were not trying to express a constant and clear reference between the Son and the Holy Spirit but merely an essential identity, it could just as easily reverse the relationship and speak of the spirit of the Spirit; which, however, it never does. Moreover, this expression, the spirit of the Son, even expresses procession from the Son according to the scriptural analogy (genitive of origin); for according to Saint Paul, the spirit of God means "the Spirit that is from God." (1 Cor 2:12.)

b) According to the Scriptures, Christ sends the Spirit (Jn 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, 20:22, Lk 24:49, etc.). But sending implies a kind of power over the one sent. And since in the wholly equal Trinity there is no basis or title for a power difference other than origin, the outward continuation and pattern of which is the sending, the Son can only send the Spirit because He proceeds from Him; the Father sends both the Son and the Spirit, but neither of the two sends the Father; the Son sends the Spirit, but the Spirit does not send the Son.

c) The Holy Spirit receives instruction from the Son: "When he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you." (Jn 16:13–15.) Since the Holy Spirit is truly God, He cannot take truth from the Son in any other way than by receiving omniscience from Him eternally. However, omniscience is identical with the divine essence; therefore, the Holy Spirit takes the divine essence eternally from the Son, or in other words, proceeds from Him.

d) Scripture always mentions the Holy Spirit in the third place, after the Son, in the Trinitarian formulas. From this consistency of expression, one may justly infer that the Holy Spirit's relation to the Son is not the same as to the Father; for then they could have been interchanged at will. The procession of the Holy Spirit from the Father and the Son is beautifully symbolized in the book of Revelation (22:1): "He showed me a river of the water of life (the Holy Spirit, Cf. Jn 7:38.), clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb."

[MajorMustang]

Awesome. Something I've been trying to explain to my Protestant like most things it doesn't go well.

Maybe one day 😅