Jordan Peterson on The Misuse of Unconscious Bias Theory

Jordan Peterson is talking about how the implicit association test by Anthony Greenwald and Mahzarin Banaji is now being misused for political gain.

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[amfcapone]

I finished watching the Channel 4 documentary on the school that tried to get rid of racism and they talked about unconscious bias and then came here. Two hours of that documentary and there is more sense here in 5 minutes.

[rjflores]

One of the first things I would ask somebody teaching unconscious biased training is, do you think that you have less unconscious bias than the students in the unconscious bias class?. If they answered no, I would then ask them how she came to that conclusion, and they would not have an answer for that, as it would signify a bias on their part that they believed that she had less unconscious bias without a tangible reason why. This would then cause cognitive dissonance on their part as they would essentially be negating the whole point of teaching unconscious bias in the first place.



If they answered yes or that she didn't know, to my question, then I would ask them what the point of teaching people about unconscious bias in the first place, as they are clearly as much in the dark as everybody else, as their immediate assumptions come from a place of unconscious instinct and therefore there isn't the awareness to constantly know when you are being biased, or even how valid the assumption or bias is in objective terms. The fact that somebody teaching the class would signify that they had moral power over those being taught, and that they are somehow more fair and objective is immoral. How would the teacher know all that in the first place about themselves and others, if a large percentage of beliefs and thoughts are unconscious to begin with, it negates the whole assumption that these trainers are in any way moral arbiters, as there is no way of ever knowing that is true based on the very logic they present, which is fundamentally flawed, their own logic can be used to discredit the very basis for having this training in the first place.

By their own arguments and logic, the teachers of these courses are unconsciously biased, by assuming that certain people will have unconscious bias, and assuming they can look into other peoples unconscious and knowing their biases whilst lecturing them about something that is beyond immediate conscious perception, why are you training somebody out of a bias, that by definition you have as well, which is unconscious, and negates the whole point of the training as you would just be as unaware of your biases as the next person.

[crankyanker]

I went through an informational presentation about implicit bias, and I was indeed convinced that I had implicit bias and all the above. It was my first year of university 😬 I saw Jordan talking about implicit bias the day after I answered questions confessing to implicit bias, and I wish I could go back and change my answers.

[rachelg.]

I live in a “Red” state and the community college I work at is requiring unconscious bias training as part of its mandatory compliance training this year. So, I guess I’ll be looking for a new job soon.

[bluroguevyse]

There’s a beautiful quote in the movie Black or White that may explain all of this, specifically the fact that even if someone seems to have instant unconscious bias, their behavior still isn’t consistent with/predicted by that bias: “It’s not your first thought that makes you a racist— it’s your second, your third, and your fourth.”

[latergator]

In this video he really dismantles the idea. It’s kinda fascinating.

[flipadoo]

I sent this video link to my local HR manager today, after attending a guest lecturer's talk about UVA’s Project Implicit lab (Harvard’s Implicit Bias test). I'm in STEM and people way smarter than me are buying this crap. It's like watching a bunch of self-flagellation monks walking down the street; people who've made their bones the old school way (working the numbers), get marginalized by some 'I have more victim points than you'. It's killing me. Expecting to be fired in 3... 2... 1...

[armenmichael]

I just spent the past few hours reading a bunch of research papers from Greenwald's original 1998 paper until now about this stuff, and here Peterson pretty much hits all of the key flaws in the IAT that I'd found in the first minute of this video. Damn, he's spot on.

[wolfbenson]

Not to mention, the overlooking of free will and the ability to make choices not constricted by "the unconscious."

[pedromoser]

IAT is not a diagnostic test... it only measures a particular attitude in a specific social context. The test is good and lead to interesting conclusions, but it needs some caution.

[pasijutaulietuviuesas]

I took the tests at Harvard and they told me I can't change my mind about either being racist, misogynist, homophobic, transphobic conservative or a tolerant, feminist, pro-LGBT liberal.

[AveImperator]

AT&T now requires unconscious bias testing and learning.

[seanprobber]

I've disagreed with a lot coming from JP, but he is spot on here. Even as far back as 2012, the professors at my institution had thrown away this line of research for the reasons stated in this video. The fact that the IAT's are so popular this day is a true perversion of the field. It really hurts to see

[asmodean]

We can’t be judged based on our unconscious choices. Only on conscious ones. Unconsciously we are machines of survival of our genes. Selfish in all cases except for those when being altruistic is self-beneficial. Ready to destroy anything that stands in our way. That is why those reflex memory tests don’t mean anything. Our ability to make conscious choices makes us moral agents. (if you agree with morality models of behaviour).

In addition to that we can’t see anything as it is even in theory. Not just other people, but anything in the universe. We can only see how thing appear to our senses and how things can be interpreted given the specifics of our brain and nervous system. So, I guess try to fight the irritation of doubt and satisfaction of belief and don’t rush to conclusions, but deal with the fact that there is no such thing as objective truth. Everything to a certain degree is defined by who presides it.

[frankdracman]

Its like Maslow standing on his head, on LSD. If youre told youre a nail long enough, all youll see is hammers. Depending on whether youre nearer to Erie or Pittsburgh, which itself is predicated on if what's his name's pooty tat's in the boot or not. Im not a teacher or ever worked in education sector, but ma BFF is, and his sister is a lifer, so was his BIL till retiring last spring, and his mother. And theyre all familyof choice and known over 30 years and spent tons of time around, totally candid when were together. His mom taught elementary and middle school in Chicago Unified on and off, mostly on, for bout 3 decades, his sister and her husband for Milwaukee Unified straight outta college, and my bud was working for MKE 8ish years ort so and just starting a new gig on an island 700 miles off Alaskan coast, its the harbor all the boats from the reality TV commercial show boats ship outta. High school, actual that plus 7th n 8th grade total student body108 kids or real close to that. You truly, ya will not meet a better human being than him. Got an MBA and doctorate in some blah blah sumfin education. He got in w/ U of Phoenix when they were just getting their legs and was head of a dept of 40-50 employees, who I met alla them and any new blood come in and you could tell it was a diverse crew, UoP was into that before all the kids were doing diversity, and you couldnt overlook it they kinda had a non sexual crush on him, well cant say what all they might thunk, he was married. When theyd hear I went to prep school w/ him fuh realio theyd kinda get like a BF/GF would meeting someone had pretty much the whooole story. He was straight management/executive but he always taught least one class a semester, just cuz he loved teaching. I have never heard a slur eave his mouth, sex, race, orientation. Well he rips on Irish for all the stereotypes, drunken, brawlers but hes full on Irish both sides. Hes got friends who hell thru an affectionate classic group identity nono word but that aint mean. Hardest working most on time always fully prepared. Super genteel kinda person very soft spoken thinks bout others as much or more than himself but people get drawn to him. Like strangers at a concert 10th row center try n start a lil chat between songs. Me? Im a pretty major tool, dunno why hes still hanging w. me at all. But NOT milk toasty, from Chicago and I think it was partly cuz he mighta worried some he might raise the bar, but kids ate him up his first semester. Hed never taught lower than college and almost alla that online, they smelled noob on him. N friggin right out they gave him the worst Kotter kids on his campus, at risk, some been held back, mosta them from rough home life he said on avg 2 girls would get knocked up a year, and half or more, but NOT all native Spanish speakers, WHY? would ya have only half native English n other half non, . They let him finish 1 semester and had to on his dime attend some remedial teacher classes, be a teachers aid for 2 semesters, PhD in education, they were showing how to wrangle cats. Aside from the non liveable wage, he got it down and he quickly got such a good rep ke said hed only have 1 or 2 in a new pack who tried testing him, but metal detectors, fights, not necessarily every day or w/ his kids but brawls were a multi times a week think, guys n girls smack n sex yapping, and sposedly coming perdy near knocking boots IN class, and the liability conundrum. Ya try n get between two, OR MORE kids brawling, better than 50/50 if their parents got wind theyd come down and blah blah how dare you touch my lil angel, bigger likelihood if ya didnt step in. Nearly monthly, twice every 3months might be closer, ON the weekend, TEACHERS own time, they were required to come in and have to sit thru anywhere from 2 to 4 hours of some hooey critical group identity theory, postmodern nonsense, its not their failure, its YOURS! He was a full time public school teacher, hardly gave him a dime for it, I mean something but maybe for a whole season coaching girls JV Vball enough for him n a date to hit mortons steak house, no appetizers, AND worked 8 hours every Sat n Sun at walmart. Again and MBA and doctorate in education lived in a studio apt, the minus 1 floor no windows, like silly sparsely, used ford focus or something, he had to bust his 401 just to eat better than ramen n mac n cheese morning, noon n nite. Better pay 1/3 the class size, and he zoom interviewed for the gig, and couple others n principal or administrator or whoever asked him if he had any questions after shed asked hers. And he asked about discipline and and policies if a kid was outta line, member he just came from something way way worse than Portier in Blackboard Jungle. He said she kinda scrunched her face a lil and fidgetted her hands n looked super anxiety, and kinda eyes avoiding his in a soft voice, and DEAD SERIOUS said :we had to send a Jr to principals office LAST YEAR. But he for some reason was OK w/ all the other crap, and under utilizing his credentials, but he said it was the indoctrination of them w/ mandate to indoctrinate it down the line, all his kinds knew the vernacular whether or not the BS circular faux or just NO substance or support concepts. And he said it had been getting more n more dumped in kids n faculty together during school hours, American students if ya dunno, have been performing lower n lower for decades now, substituting propaganda for real academic instruction, in the limited hours they had could only compound that problem. He said minimum once a month, one month they had 3 conditioning sessions where some for fee pbt sector person would come in and go thru their rote memorization routine, from the 16 campaign till he left trump derangement syndrome got bigger and bigger, a buncha non academic stupid comment or policy move, or just implication the media chose to really really blow up principal on command from district admin would email all the teachers, 7-12, and tell them extremely concisely how they HAD to frame and word how the wild lil beasts were to have it molded, one a his kids, black, govt housing, single mom young, who gave him a younger sister, aint that sweet. Kid was a joker he said and wore a maga hat one day just to rile the staff up in a place w/ metal detectors, where it wasnt that unusual one was slipped in thru a bathroom window anyway, none ever discharged during his tenure, but at some other campuses, a few no lethal stabbings, kids full on doing the dirty sometimes not even in an empty room, around the corner of hallway, also not the norm but not that unusual cops had to be called when a fight went WAY too far. Not that I resume faculty was quite freaked out by when cops had to be dispatched, brawls, certainly any weapons, sex in a kinda secluded corner mighta been no biggie. But he said the faculty, well vice principal n then principal lost their mind over it, like first thing kids still entering n metal detectors n two security guys checking bags n let loose on WTF they were thinking letting a mage hat in. He was laughing telling me some of he shirts caps n major hoochie mama wear he noticed on kids chuckling and gawking at it all, F da police, I dont luv you hoes, thats why Im out the do, n likes dat. Lame as it is totally non academic agenda fuel, whether its political, social, fiscal, religious, or anti religious is allowed to slither its way into the education system which only makes it seem that much more credible as opposed to across the street ready to pitch the rap to kids leaving school, AND how slick is it to make a buck "training: teachers w/ or w/out students too.Guess theres the answer to WTF revenue streams does an oppression critical creative fiction theory degree offer, ya propagate future sock puppet armies to continue the cause (Goebbels would be envious) but I dont even have kids, but stealing however much opportunity to to gain a sound foundation high school ed before taking up precious class time and open drive space in teenage minds is the pisser. Its like partisantardation, or dropping out, everyone loses, whatever their group identity profile it bears some expense on alla us

[garth]

TLDR did a video on unconscious bias and disproved one of the studies.

[tlowensjr]

We took an unconscious bias class at work. None of the contents of that class was consistent with unconscious bias. It was mainly promoting the idea that women in higher positions are more profitable to companies.

[Mopar_JJ]

I share this view on the test. However, if I were to outline this and take this stance I’m sure to have a failing grade lol

[letsgoBrandon]

There's a theme with racists or any other flavour of bigot. They'll come straight out and 'admit' to bigotry. They might not call it bigotry, but it's quite conscious and freely uttered. You don't get to call me a bigot by the back door, so to speak.

[sae]

I dont think i understand the problem here. If we all have biases, what is wrong with trying to recognize them? To me, we must have biases, otherwise how do we form opinions... Or what is wrong with having biases if we can't avoid it? I haven't done the unconscious bias training.