The best pull-up grip: everyone got it WRONG [study]

Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
00:30 Studies on grip width
03:38 The grip width myth
04:54 Biomechanics during pull-up
10:41 Other considerations for interpreting research
12:26 Summary - 4 lessons

References:
Multiple other studies have also found no significant differences in biceps activity between pulldowns and pull-ups performed with various different grips:

#biceps #lats #pullups #chinups #latissimusdorsi #mennohenselmans #personaltrainer #personaltrainers #personaltraining #personaltrainerlife #personaltraineronline #personaltraineronline

[jessef]

All I know for myself is close neutral grip pull ups feel amazing and wide pronated grip pull ups feel like shit.

[augustotutaoo]

THIS IS QUALITY WORK! Thank you, Menno.

[kristijan]

The most lat grow I've noticed was from narrow neutral grip. I combine it with medium grip on the second back day

[nubeebee]

An extra wide grip works the teras major back muscles, just below the armpits. I've read this several times and it works on me.

[MediaWML]

Imagine Dr Mike's reaction to 6:21 haha!

Seriously, another great video. Found you via RP and I'm impressed.

[ДимаМ-зж]

7:28 This is Tom Purvis's model and I don't agree with this model. Horizontal forces are a reaction in response to the internal torque around the elbow joint due to the vertical force vector acting straight up at the contact area of the hand (these forces are a consequence of the creation of a torque for flexion at the elbow). Even the way you drew the forces, it follows that the force vector creates a bending torque for the elbow joint (there is a load on the elbow extensors as you drew it). However, the long head of the triceps helps adduct the shoulder and is a co-activator for the biceps so that its activation will be high since in the presence of a vertical vector we have a long external lever on the shoulder joint (there is always a need to create more torque for elbow flexion if the triceps is active and this explains why the biceps is highly active since pull-up is a coordinated creation of torque around the shoulder and elbow joints). The hypothesis with lateral forces is weak and does not stand up to criticism.

[МихаилСавцов-го]

You are talking about equal activation of all muscles during pull-ups with different grips. And about stretch-mediated hypertrophy. So, in all types of rows and pull-ups, the long head of the biceps will not change its length due to the fact that the shoulder joint extends and the elbow joint bends, which could potentially negatively affect hypertrophy. We can see a similar effect in studies comparing hypertrophy of the rectus femoris muscle in squats and calf extensions. Or the long head of the triceps in overhead extensions or push-ups. Thus, we can conclude that rows and pull-ups are not the best exercises for biceps.

[flhman]

Very interesting stuff! Really glad I've stumbled upon your channel and hope so see more of this type of content!

[adamsloane]

This is really helpful, Menno. I was hoping you would address the controversy about lat active range in overhead movements. You said that overhead movements stretch the lats (which is why a wide grip is not optimal), but what about the claim that lats lose active tension and therefore are not recruited optimally when the humerus is raised above about 120 degrees? I know that this is view is controversial (and anecdotally a lot of lats have been built with pull ups), but it seems to be a theory that won't go away. That's why, in the U.S. at least, you see a lot of people doing half kneeling diagonal pulldowns and avoiding pull ups and pull downs.

[gemain]

This was an amazingly informative video! Thank you, was nervous abandoning wide grip pull ups due to shoulder issues in favor of ring pullups which feel MUCH better.

Awesome to hear that maximally im still effecting the same muscle groups, and moreso that im doing it much more optimally.

The bit about how pronated grip over supinated grip is actually more beneficial for bicep activation was honestly mind blowing. Know im not alone in feeling like a supinated grip (wheter in chin-ups or bicep curls) feels like its hitting the bicep more. Kind of hard to wrap my mond around that not being the case.

[mert]

You mentioned near the end that rows might not be the most effective back builder even though they train most of the back. Could you possibly elaborate on this and suggest alternatives or any reasoning why? Awesome video as usual!

[paulsacramento]

Mentzer mentioned this decades ago although he advocated supinated because it put the bicep in it's "strongest position".
Default in terms of ROM that we need to understand is that the position/movement that puts the muscles fully stretch is superior than one that shortens the range of motion.

[joeshmoe]

Good information Menno. So growth probably happens from the tension on fiber to fiber. But because of motor unit failure maximal contractions will likely provide stimulus to all motor units if you train to failure. Also, functional differentiation can produce potentially produce different compositions. But likely not in this case do to using full range of motion from top to bottom.
Super wide grip just isn't comfy IMHO.

[MagnusStormfist]

This is interesting stuff although I will say in the supinated grip, you have more chance of tendonitis because your wrists are forced into supination(people have a similar issue is the barbell bicep curl), overhand/neutral grip variations are far safer in my opinion.

[rkonjr]

Very informative. I believe it is often the case, that "truth" gets lost in terminology or terms. The effect of Lat exercises is a good example of this. "Wide grip builds wide back" becomes "Wide grip builds wide lats", which is objectively wrong, while the former may be (for many people) objectively correct. Wide grip pull-ups definitely spread the scapula. If one can spread the scapula when posing, one appears to have a wide back. Almost independent of lat development. Robert Kennedy of Muscle Mag International referred to the different effects as "Lat Belly" training (rows, narrow grip chins) and "Back Widening" (wide grip chins). Part of the context is that Bodybuilders used to AVOID lower lat work, because it could ruin someone's taper. A high lat look was preferred. So wide grip exercises MAY very well build the width of the back (via scapular flexibility/spreading and/or specifically NOT working the lats but working the Teres ? Who knows). Personally, I definitely feel narrow grip lat exercises lower in my lats, and wide grip higher. As an added note...if you think about, a wide grip chin is actually a neutral grip in action, not a pronated grip.

[michaele.strasser]

My own data with pull ups is going back many years and I even talked to a physiotherapist about this topic multiple times. My experience shows a different result.
1. My performance of doing barbell bicep curls after pull ups with a supinated close grip goes down significantly.
2. My curl performance decreased not (in relation) after medium wide pronated pull ups. Thumbless grip.
3. Doing only pull ups without a horizontal rowing movement decreased my lat development significantly. If I had to choose only one exercise for the lats I would take the rows.
4. I collected data for years and it made me nuts that I did not react as expected from what everyone else said. From very wide grip to underhand grip and different rep ranges and sets. For me personally are pull ups with a close underhand grip mainly a senseless bicep exercise with some lat support.
Even though I found out what works best for me, I have no explanation why. Thankfully I am old enough that I don't need to explain everything. 😊

[ankitptl]

Killing it with the videos Menno! Thank you for the content.

[abdielbullberg]

I have 5 different grip options on my pull-up rack.
I use all grips 2 times, one set without a 14kg weighted vest and one with it on, for a total of 10 sets.
It has, and keeps on building both my back and my biceps.

[PureOliveOil]

Please, Menno read this:

If you look at the picture of the girl during this video, you will notice that one shoulder is dramatically raised, and the other held back in a lower position. You don’t tend to talk about shoulder blade position in any of your videos, and yet intuitively, it would have a large effect on the biomechanics of any given movement that involves the shoulder. Is this because research has been done and shown that there is no actual effect, or because there is no research on the topic at all? Poor external rotation, and scapular control in general is often a major risk factor for injuries. I’m surprised you have never covered it to the best of my knowledge.

Thank you

[colinriches]

The model at 8:15 has got some severe imbalances!