Why Sola Scriptura is FALSE w/ Patrick Madrid

Today's episode of Pints with Aquinas is all about why Sola Scriptura (Bible Only) is FALSE. And I speak with a man who's certainly well-qualified to have a discussion about it: The Pat Madrid.

In this episode, Pat and I will teach you:

- The meaning of Sola Scriptura
- Why Sola Scripture is false
- What is meant by the phrase "Catholic Tradition"
- and more!

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0:00 Intro
2:30 Strive Sponsor Spot
4:01 Interview Begins
5:52 In defense of "Sola Scriptura"
9:23 Why should we reject sola scriptura?
12:20 "Sola Scriptura" supported by 2 Timothy 3:12-17
14:51 Hallow Sponsor Spot
16:00 What Counts as Scripture?
18:41 Revisiting the 2 Timothy Passage
20:51 What do Catholics even mean by "Tradition?"
32:05 Material Sufficiency vs Formal Sufficiency
36:39 Would any Catholics Reject Material Sufficiency?
41:08 Don't Catholics just teach "Sola Ecclesia?"
45:49 Does the Bible Get its Authority from the Church or From God?
50:01 New ways to talk to Protestants without talking about Tradition
54:51 Why we need Tradition: Patrick's fruitful argument in a Denny's
1:01:33 "Sola Scriptura" is wrong, whether Catholicism is true or not.
1:03:13 Soft-Sell Apologetics
1:04:24 What was it like debating James White?
1:09:50 Recollecting notable parts of the debate
1:11:59 The long lasting impact of the debate
1:14:36 Wrapping up

[johnnyhath]

One of your protestant brothers here, coming to this video well after the fact it seems, but nonetheless still wanted to thank you for putting this out there. There were some really compelling arguments presented in this discussion that have given me much to think on. Thanks for the encouragement and for loving Christ as you do!

[sartoriusrock]

As an extremely sophomoric Protestant exploring Catholicism, what I would instinctually want to hold to is not "*Sola* Scriptura" per se, but rather "Nihil Contra Scriptura" - a reverence for and conditional acceptance of tradition, *so long as* those traditions do not negate what is taught in scripture.

From a Protestant perspective, there seem to be many Catholic traditions that are, in fact, contradictory to scripture - especially when it comes to soteriology and Mariology. Still investigating the arguments from both sides; not taking a firm stance either way! (yet)

**EDIT**
Now, I am taking a firm stance. I'm taking our Lord and Savior at His word, following the fathers of the Church, and I made the decision to come home a few months ago. With God's grace, I will be confirmed as a Catholic on Easter Sunday this year.

[Orthodoxy.Memorize.Scripture]

As a former Protestant, I felt as if I’ve been lied to for 23 years. Then studied the fathers, not cherry picking them like I was taught, and found the church those fathers were part of in Orthodoxy.

[JephPlaysGames]

Two of the questions/thought processes I had when I was a Protestant that ultimately led me to rejecting the idea of Sola Scriptura and helped me convert to Catholicism were the following:

1. If I were to give a Bible to several thousand people to have them read and learn about Jesus, God, His will, etc, every one of them would have different interpretations of who God and Jesus are, and what God's will for us is. Those interpretations would also be entirely based on their own personal experiences, belief systems, and personal biases. How would we know whose interpretations are correct, and whose interpretations are wrong? Furthermore, there are many different versions and translations of the Bible. How do we know which one is closest to the original intent? The Bible doesn't teach how to correctly interpret itself, so we would need to compare said interpretations to things such as long standing tradition, historical documents, etc in order to know whether they are true or not.

2. The gospels are estimated to have been written over 40 years after Jesus' death, resurrection, and ascension. The Bible itself wasn't canonized and compiled until the late 300's. The printing press wasn't invented until the 1400's, and widespread literacy didn't happen until after that. How would the full truth of Christianity get passed on for over 1400 years without widespread access to the Bible?

[ajamusic]

It's so easy to fall into the trap of reading scripture in the lense of a 21st Century American as if it is only addressed to me or our generation, that we forget the historical and personal context behind them.  They were first written and delivered as actual documents/letters addressed to an individual or particular church already established, to address issues that particular church was facing. And further instruct their leaders, like Timothy.  I really liked how Patrick put 2 Timithothy 3:16-17 into perspective:  


Paul tells Timothy that all scripture is God- breathed and sufficient for teaching.  Teaching what?  The Gospel of Jesus.  Problem is the New Testament books were not put to paper and compiled as canon yet.  The Gospel was an oral tradition, so the OT is sufficient in teaching Jesus as the Messiah because it proves to foreshadow Him, and He fullfills it.  


So Paul is telling Timothy the Old Testament is sufficient to support teaching the Gospel of Christ.  Teaching to who?  Timothy by himself?  Not at all, Timothy was charged with overseeing his community, it is them he must teach, and he can only do so by word-of-mouth and passing on the traditions that were taught to him.  What traditions:  the oral Gospel and practices (baptism, breaking bread on the Lord's day, summoning Apostles- later Bishops by Apostolic Succession for the laying on of Hands, etc.)


And this had to happen everywhere the Church expanded to.  How were they all to understand the Old Testament the same in order to teach how they foreshadowed Christ?  Left to their own devices and intepretation?  Not at all. They needed the guidance of the Apostles by which Jesus gave them such authority.  It was their teaching of Christ to men like Timothy, who were then commissioned to carry it forward to their local community.  


We now refer to the authorized universal teaching and interpretaion of Scripture as the Magisterium. So that all Catholic Churches may teach The Gospel of Christ in communion with each other and without heresy growing within the Church without being immediately squashed.


That is Why the the Church's authority is organized threefold-  Tradition, Scripture, and Magisterium.  Tradition is how the Church began.  Scripture was used to support the new traditions preached, The Gospel of Jesus, and practices He instituted   And it's ability to be properly interpreted and taught rest with the Magisterium.  All three building upon each other, not contradicting each other.  Because without them, and with only the idea of Sola Scriptura and your own personal interpretation based on your own perspective, we wind up with tens of thousands of churches that can't agree with each other on Scripture, which leads to individuals shopping for a church that fits their own relevant truth, or starting a new church that will fit their own idea of truth because one doesnt already fit them.  And that is backwards.  Even Martin Luther said later in his life: "There is not an individual, however clownish he may be, who does not claim to be inspired by the Holy Ghost."


As Matt eloquently puts it: "the Bible is NOT an instruction manual for a church still in shrinkwrap.  It presupposes a Church ALREADY in existence."

Sorry for the long one, and thanks for reading all the way through: God Bless and Peace Be With You All!

[SkyeTerrier]

I’ve recently come back to the Catholic Church. I wandered away years ago, attended a few different Protestant denominations, and eventually became convinced that the Catholic Church has the fullness of truth.

[catholicdisciple]

Matt, I really appreciate that you aren’t afraid to ask the tough questions. If we want to come to a deeper faith and be better able to defend that faith, we can’t be caught up in straw-man fallacies. In addition, I absolutely loved Patrick’s well-articulated and informative responses. Thank you for this - it really helped strengthen my faith in the Catholic Church. God bless.

[PrisonMike-_-]

A minor thing. I absolutely love that Matt shows the question asked before AND after the sponsor ads. Most people don't do that and I end up forgetting the question. Such a cool dude

[georgeleger]

I knew that conversation with him about the James White debate would lead to an interview! Awesome job Matt! Keep up the awesome work!!

[willcunningham]

I’m just a little late in viewing this but thankfully it’s still here to view! I’m Protestant and I love watching debates and even conversations like this between Catholics. I appreciate both of these brothers and this subject matter of Sola Scriptura and Sacred Tradition is very important and I learned a lot by listening to this conversation. Also, I appreciate Patrick’s honesty and humility regarding his “prickly” demeanor in his 1993 debate with James White. As we become more seasoned we learn more effective ways of communicating and, as in Patrick’s case, debating. But that strong conviction and fervency is still there, which is a good thing! Thanks for this video!

[christianurugutia]

The best thing about PWA interviews is the fact that Matt asks the questions that everyone is thinking.

[vickiekeene]

I'm a 54 year old protestant researching this was so understandable. I have been so confused on tradition. I get it now!! Thank you much!! Very clear!
I get now why the " bible alone" theory does not hold water.

[pastorchamorro]

11 children and 25 grandchildren God bless

[sabbygonzaga]

I love my Catholic Church and Catholic faith. I'm very home with my Church and my faith because these are the only things that make sense to me.

[Strive]

Proud to have gotten a chance to meet and shake Patrick 's hand. He is uncommon among uncommon men

[jonson]

I used to call myself protestant Christian but when I started to dip into Christianity vs Islam, I quickly realized what I've learned so far (i.e. sola scriptua) is just not sufficient.
Right now I don't call myself anything except Christian, no denomination whatsoever.
But I must say, I do think I am slowly bring drawn in to Catholicism .. on an intellectual level.

Thanks for this interview.

[JoshJimenez_]

I love listening to the Patrick Madrid show. God bless you guys 🤙

[davidfabien]

Romans 10:17 Consequently faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.

[wm.j.roscioli]

Matt.This program with Patrick & yourself is terrific. Thank you.