Provisionism contrasted with Arminianism

Dr. Leighton Flowers plays a clip from a good Arminian brother (Nicholas Noyola) who references a work from the Society of Evangelical Arminians to contrast the theological perspective of Arminians from that of Provisionists. This broadcast will likely be a bit lengthy and geared toward our "theological geeks" who like getting into "the nitty gritty" of our theological distinctions. JOIN US FOR A LIVE CONVERSATION

[gabrielcalderon]

Every night before Dr. James White goes to sleep, He checks his closet for Dr. Flowers, lol

[atyt]

At 2:20:35….thank you Dr. Flowers. This simple statement clarifies so well the point of contention. Admitting that you can’t save yourself is not saving yourself.
👍🏻👍🏻👊🏼👊🏼

[troybusch]

To answer your query, the illustrations you use are very helpful! You are a gifted communicator and your arguments are intelligent and biblically compelling. Taken together these make you a strong apologist for the Provisionist perspective. I have been established more fully in truth through your teaching ministry. Thank you!

[omnitheus]

I am so glad you made this video Leighton! One of your better ones. You are really strengthening the Provisionist position. You've come a long way since I first watched you years ago!

[spacemanspiff]

We’re not saved by our philosophy but by grace ... 👍

[Mals]

3 hour video!?! 😮Leighton! By golly… okay, here I go! *grabs popcorn* *hits play*

[HosannaInExcelsis]

Dr. Flowers, I noticed that many times over the podcast, people keep asking questions related with the "corrupt nature of man". You gave some good answers, and I can see that you are taking distance on the original protestant reformers that had the view that the fall had completely destroyed our nature and incapacitated our free will. I think is important to note that it wasn't the orthodox view at the time of the reformation, but unfortunately this presupposition is so ingrained that is hard to break through it. And I am glad to see that you are starting to challenge people to question this extreme view.

The Scholastic view, that represented the orthodox Christian view at the time, rejected the idea of total inability an instead taught that man had lost his supernatural grace (they called it sanctifying grace), that which allowed him to be in friendship with God at the Garden of Eden. So, they saw the process of justification as one that allowed us to regain that supernatural gift from God. The problem with idea that nature got totally corrupted is that it leads you in the direction that God is a moral monster because he is ultimately the creator of nature, and is judging our sinfulness even though we don't have the ability to overcome it. Is worth saying that this very idea is nowhere to be found in any of the Church Fathers, whereas the orthodox idea is compatible with their views. But the point is that nowhere the bible says that our nature got totally corrupted, that is a theological presupposition, like many of those you encounter daily in your discussions with Calvinists.

When you explore the idea that nature wasn't totally corrupted, but it had lost the supernatural grace which was a gift of God at the Garden of Eden, many of the apparent inconsistencies will disappear. The great philosopher and theologian Thomas Aquinas developed this idea brilliantly in the Summa Theologica, making the proper distinctions between the natural order and the supernatural order. I think its worth that you explore that view so you can find a way out of the "total depravity" dilemma which creates all those inconsistencies in protestant theology.

But in any case, although I am not a Protestant and differ with some of your views, I deeply enjoy your podcasts.

Pax Christi.

[KadesVideoList]

59:00 what you are saying here about the gospel being sufficient to produce faith, that the gospel is God providing what we need to believe answers my question about Grace. Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection and the good news proclamation of it IS grace, IS what saves man. There is nothing more needed beyond that from God.

[kralston]

I combine the two.

John 6:63 The Spirit alone gives eternal life. Human effort accomplishes nothing. And the very words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

[jeffreybomba]

I have had Calvinists and Arminianists insist that you do not have to go back and get the full context of Paul’s OT quotes. You have to remember that Reformed theology often creates different means of salvation through time. This will lead to ideas that the NT is not clarifying the Jews bad interpretation, but is instead the NT is redefining the OT, and Paul is intentionally taking bits a pieces of an OT passage because the rest no longer applies.

[matthewshelton]

"Get into Christ's arrow" "because your arrow will miss the mark"

I love this illustration.

[isaiahkerstetter]

I'd love to see a dialog between you and Josiah Trenum or Jay Dyer (who James White has ducked, but what else is new).

[jayeshipley]

Leighton asked for a verse stating what part the Holy Spirit does in conjunction with hearing the gospel for salvation. In John 16:7, 8 Jesus said, "Nevertheless, I tell you the truth; it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away the HELPER will not come TO YOU. But if I go I will send him TO YOU. And when he comes, HE WILL CONVICT the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment. (caps mine) Note the Holy Spirit is accompanying/helping those sharing the gospel.

[cecilspurlockjr.]

I'm glad youre a dressing both untruths now.. Thank you Flowers..i love u n THE LORD

[ChrisHolman]

It's 1am and I'm too tired to process this. lol! I will watch this again tomorrow.

[goalking]

Leighton, I find myself somewhere in between. I beleive God uses His means such as His Word but He uses the Holy Spirit in conjunction. The Holy Spirit touches the hearts of them who hear it, however, even still one can close/harden their heart to His voice. However I don't beleive anything like a "revival". Simply put the Holy Spirit is ever present in us. The Holy Spirit is a large part of our conscience. The Holy Spirit is the voice that convicts us of our trespasses. So anyone who rejects the Gospel, rejects even the work of the Holy Spirit who speaks to them along with the Word of God that testifies to them.

[Searchgodstruthhomestead]

If the reading of the bible isn't enough to cause someone to believe and God has to come in person in order for the bible to cause belief in someone, what exactly would God say differently than what He inspired the biblical writers to write? If He would not say anything different than what is actually found literally written in scriptures, then why would He need to come to you for a personal private meeting at all? God began the process of salvation and He finishes it too. He began it on the cross when He drew all people and that's when the universal call went out that each person has been commanded to repent.

[marteld]

Hi Dr. Leighton,

Being you were an ex-Calvinist...is there a great book you highly recommend that refutes the Calvinist system in-depth?

God bless you

[thefrontporchpulpit]

Never forget the second comforter and The Word of God is made flesh.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, ) full of grace and truth.

[jeffreybomba]

Finding and instance of prevenient grace happening in scripture is like trying to find an example of regeneration prior to faith.