Provisionism Rightly Represented

Dr. Leighton Flowers considers the comments of both Calvinists and Arminians about what Provisionism entails. Do they get it right? Do they treat Provisionism fairly? Let's explore it together and discuss in and LIVE Q&A broadcast today!

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[biblicaltheologyexegesisan]

I do not subscribe to the depravity of man according to traditional Calvinists nor Arminians. I do agree with the Provisionist view on this matter. Leighton is doing a great job.

[pillsbill]

Calvinism is to faith what the Stockholm Syndrome is to love.

[duncescotus]

I think Tyler's characterization is fair with the proviso that we agree with his understanding of Semi-Pelagianism. And Leighton is certainly justified in rejecting this Gnostic flavored label. The point that PREVENIENT grace is part of Arminianism as well as Calvinism is important. Arminius differed in that he thought grace to be resistable, but still necessary. I think Provisionism, properly understood, does NOT dispense with "prevenient" grace either; it simply places that grace WITHIN the Gospel and the appeal of it--"faith comes by hearing..."
A good scripture for all to remember: "Of his fulness have we all received, and grace for grace." Amen to that.

[jeraldmcgowin]

Greeting from SW Florida to which I have retired too. I have only recently discovered your youtube program Soteriology101. Thank you for your program. I am a retired Army Chaplain and retired Pastor. I also play chess. A few years ago Reformed Theology began to raise its head in my local association. Our director of missions thought all Calvinist were TULIP Calvinist. Calvinism seemed to be creeping in to some of the Churches and the Director of Missions was attempting to fight against it. He was doing his best to educate churches about the problems of Calvinism. I was already having some confrontations with new pastors who were Calvinist but not of the Tulip variety. I was called to a mission Church outside of that Association. It seems to me that Reformed Theology SO emphasize the Sovereignty of God and de-emphasize God's other attributes that this borders on blasphemy. Is God Sovereign? Yes! Is God Love? Yes!. I was watching Ligonier Ministries, YouTube: Serving Chaplains and Military Families, and heard a claim that reformed theology - sovereignty of God allowed her the ability to cope with tragedy when the rest of the Chaple community, outside of the Reformed movement could not. I found this offensive. Sadly, I have seen, first hand a number of mass casualty events and I KNOW that strength of FAITH across the Christian tradition sustains, encourages, and lifts up. I wonder if you could address these kinds of claims in the Reformed tradition.

[duncescotus]

Whoever wrote that bit for Got Questions did a really good job. Thanks if you're out there.

[kaylabeller]

Off topic but … not to minimize the tragedy that just took place in Texas in any way, but it would be great to see a video discussion, not debate; about how our understanding of scripture and theology shapes our world view, and how then it ultimately shapes how our Christianity interacts in the world around. Debates about theology on paper is one thing but the real test is in the fruit that it produces when it is “debated” by real life events. God bless LF. thanks for all you do.

[duncescotus]

All things necessary for life are provided IN the Gospel, even the ability to believe it. After all, it's a pretty compelling story!

[johndisalvo]

Leighton: The work of the Holy Spirit is to take the word of God ( that does not return void) and convict the WORLD of sin righteousness, and judgment to come.
SIMPLE!

[sharonlouise]

Is not Scripture special revelation from God? Also, I love Hebrews 3:7-8: "Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says, “TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME, AS IN THE DAY OF TRIAL IN THE WILDERNESS, " I understand that this is in the present active which means the Holy Spirit spoke this in the past, He is speaking it today and when you hear it tomorrow, it is His voice speaking it." The Holy Spirit is giving testimony all the time and we are cautioned to NOT harden our hearts but to LISTEN to Him. And this, it seems indicates His part is speaking and giving testimony. Our part is to either listen or not listen by hardening our hearts. Clearly we have a choice.

[Blain]

Is the story of the rich man and Lazarus relevant to this topic?

The rich man is in hell calling out to Abraham for relief. The rich man asks Abraham to send Lazarus to his brothers so that they may not likewise end up in hell. Abraham says, "They have Moses and the prophets, let your brothers listen to them." The rich man says, "No, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them, then they will repent." Abraham says, "If they do not believe Moses and the prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead."

The story seems to suggest a few things: (1) the rich man's brothers are unrepentant and in danger of hell; (2) that if they listen and believe Moses and the prophets, then they can repent and be saved from hell; (3) no special supernatural work needs to be sent to them since they have Moses and the prophets; after all, if they don't listen to Moses why would they listen to a man raised from the dead?

A reasonable conclusion, at least to me, is that the words of Moses and the prophets were sufficient to save from hell those who would listen, believe, and repent. A special supernatural act was not necessary. Isn't it entirely reasonable to suggest on the basis of this story that the Gospel is sufficient to save from hell those who would listen, believe, and repent? And that no special supernatural act is necessary to accomplish this salvation?

I also would like to point out that the Gospel IS the power of God that brings salvation to ALL who believe. First the Jew, then the Gentile. [Romans 1:16] I make this second point to clarify that the Gospel is the supernatural power of God unto salvation and so those who believe are not themselves initiating or willing their own salvation.

[brandone.]

I think the provisionist description of God’s grace is much more logical and biblically sound than Arminians and Calvinists. Our nature changes AFTER faith, not before. Faith is possible because God graciously sent his Son, word, and preachers. Once we hear the gospel, we become able to place our faith in Christ or not. We simply will not do so and cannot do so before we hear. All of those things preceding our ability to have faith are moves of God, especially Christ’s death and resurrection. Clearly provisionists acknowledge a minimum of 3 moves of God before we can have faith in Christ, so the Pelagian label is unwarranted.

[Real_LiamOBryan]

I used to believe in Arminianism's view of an extra-biblical, extra-ordinary, partial regeneration on the basis of scriptures saying that the ears had to be opened in order for people to hear. In my mind, this stood out as saying specifically that people cannot be regenerated by hearing and responding to the word or the words of Jesus (special revelation) or by recognizing and responding to God's revelation in nature and man's heart (general revelation). I think, now, that this is probably wrong because of the things mention by Dr. Flowers. It seems to me, now, obvious that general and special revelation are the means of opening the ears, or softening the heart, of those who are unregenerate. I think that this makes the most sense of Jesus speaking in parables to prevent people whom He decided to harden them in their unbelief so that they would not turn and be saved. The only question left, then, is where in Scripture does it say that it takes more of a supernatural, extra-ordinary, further work of the Holy Spirit than those supernatural, ordinary and extra-ordinary works of the Holy Spirit in the present general and special revelations combined? Now, I think that I'm a Molinist, non-O.S.A.S., Provisionist, and I reject a prerequisite, partial regeneration.

[DamonNomad]

It seems Tyler Vela and his fellow Calvinists are quite blasé about all the miracles God performed to enable us to believe in Christ and be saved. Either that, or they are just looking for an excuse to be passive and lazy, which seems far less likely...

[elizabethneil]

Some things I would like to tap like one more than once. This is one of those things

[robynhouse]

Yes! The gospel is sufficient for salvation because it is a work of the Holy Spirit!

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

[michaelcarpenter]

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word. Seems that the seed of the word is sufficient in of itself

[enhancedcalm]

When I hear "hard core intellectual " in context of Calvinist, I have to think either stupid or unsaved or stubborn as a rock. There really isn't any other option.

[apilkey]

Those who believe are those who were convicted by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Simply put we were convinced.

What brings me to believe?

What brings you to make the countless other decisions you make?

There’s a countless number of things and it’s different for everyone.

I don’t claim to be God and know what convinced everyone else.

Ultimately we believe according to the scriptures.

We are drawn.

We are convicted.

We are convinced.

We are compelled.

We are persuaded.

We are overwhelmed.

Etc etc the list goes on.

My free choice to accept His free gift of salvation obviously depends on God initiating and sending His Son.

When we freely believe in Christ it obviously depends on us being convicted by the power of the Holy Spirit.

When we freely put our faith in Christ and believe on Him for salvation it obviously depends on us being BY ALL THAT GOD HAS DONE by:

1) Sending His Son depends on GOD.
2) Sending His Holy Spirit depends on GOD.
3) Giving us His Word depends on GOD.
4) Speaking to us through creation depends on GOD.

We are:

5) Persuaded (which depends on what God has done for us).
6) Influenced (which depends on what God has done for us).
7) Convicted (which depends on what God has done for us).
8) Convinced (which depends on what God has done for us).
9) Compelled (which depends on what God has done for us).
10) Drawn (which depends on what God has done for us)..

ALL OF THIS DEPENDS ON GOD!

We all believe God moves the will towards salvation but it’s not irresistible.

He “moves our wills” by convicting and by persuading and by compelling us.

We can either reject this or be convinced and compelled and overwhelmed and persuaded to freely believe.

1) Can I of the GOD-given volition that God in His Sovereignty has arbitrarily chosen to effectually and irresistibly give to me and create me with come to Christ 👉AFTER👈 He has taken the Divine Initiative in:

1. Drawing us (John 12:32)
2. Calling us (Matthew 11:28, Revelation 22:17)
3. Reproving/convicting us (John 16:7-9)
4. Giving us light (John 1:9)
5. First loved us (1 John 4:19)
6. Sought us (Luke 19:10)
7. Revealed Himself to us (Romans 1:17-20)

A: Yes.

[darrenplies]

The Spirit is in the world convicting the world of sin righteousness and judgment = means of grace

[robynhouse]

I love listening to these long videos but I would really appreciate it if more Shorts were made from them. I want to share this with my Calvinist friends but these videos are too long.