What is Wrong With Molinism?

#WWUTT #PastorGabe #Molinism #WilliamLaneCraig #DrStrange #Bible #BibleStudy #JesusChrist #RomanCatholic #Catholic

[firebynight]

It seems you don't understand the text or Molinism.

[jonny]

I think it's dishonest to say that Molina came up with Molinism because he hated God's sovereignty. It's actually BECAUSE Molina wanted to uphold God's sovereignty and the significant freedom of humanity that he came up with Molinism. He saw the need to affirm BOTH that God is sovereign in determining the course of human history AND that man is responsible for his actions because he freely chooses to do them.

[clv]

I always notice everyone’s desire to “explain” God, or lessen Him to man’s understanding. What is known is what is REVEALED by Him. And what is revealed is in the Son.

[jonny]

Here's a consolidated form of the argument in the video:
P1: Necessarily, if God foreknows that Peter will do X, then Peter will do X
P2: God foreknows that Peter will do X.
C: Therefore, necessarily Peter will do X

This argument commits an fallacy in modal logic. The conclusion is a non-sequitur because it does not follow from the two premises that Peter will necessarily deny Christ. All that follows from the two premises is that Peter will deny Christ, but not that Peter will do it NECESSARILY. Had Peter chosen to testify of Christ in that circumstance, then God would have foreknown THAT instead. So Peter has the ability to act in such a way so that God's foreknowledge would have been DIFFERENT had he chosen to act differently in that circumstance, and that could have changed what circumstances God actualizes or who he places in that circumstance.

I hope this helps!

[jimbojackson]

Love most of your videos, but this is simply not accurate. I recommend people listen to Craig's speech on Molinism and decide for themselves if they think it's consistent with scripture.

[NUCLEARxREDACTED]

So let me get this straight, if someone disagrees about the particulars of a being that by his very nature can’t be understood fully. That automatically means that who ever disagrees on the particular details is a heretic that hates god? I can not even believe someone could actually have the utter gall to quote from the bible, and then turn around and instantly spit all over what the bible teaches.

Matthew 7:1-5
Luke 6:37-42
John 8:1-8
Luke 6:31-36
James 4:11-12
Romans 2:1-3
Romans 14 1-13
2 Corinthians 5:10
Galatians 6:1-6
Ephesians 2:1-10

[Kevin-jcfx]

It sounds like you said the same thing. God knew everything that we would ever do and created us still. Of course we make our choices freely but none of them come as a surprise to God.
For the example of Peter, he CAN make any decision but WILL only make the one God foresaw, not because God will force or manipulate him to do it but because God's foresight is infallible.
That is how Jesus could tell Peter what he would do beforehand. That is also how God gives propheties that are then realized. If Peter could surprise God by acknowledging Christ and saying that he was ready to die for him, that would mean God isn't really omniscient.
If we say that God had determined the future, that would mean don't really have free will as we are just doing whatever God had determined that we would do, which will imply that God is the one who makes people sin, which contradicts the Bible.

To summarize, God has a plan, He creates time, circumstances and people and he foresees that everything would contribute to his plan including our free choices.

[miguelalvarez]

I didn’t understand this video that well. What’s the difference between Molinism and God’s sovereign decree?

[micahkunkle]

You need to do some more looking into molinism. Certainty (God's knowledge) does not entail necessity (that was the *only* decision peter could've made). And Molina valued sovereignty so highly he created a system where it worked with libertarian free will. Because without LFW, morally responsibility is on God, not us.

[Arulrajprince]

GOD Decreed everything which comes to pass and HE does whatever HE Wills.

[justokproductions]

One of the most dishonest breakdowns of Molinism I’ve yet seen lmao. It’s good to know this is the intellectual extent I have to go up against

[sarahpfeuffer]

This is confusing to me... I can't comprehend everything you are saying very well.

[eksffa]

This explanation of Molinism is wrong. This buy is note even beating a strawman

[joebrowser]

Disclaimer, I’m just starting to study Molinism. Now, from what Im understanding this misses one essential part when you say “God can’t do what we will not do”. From what Im understanding about Molinism is not that He can’t do what we will not do, out will and choice has no effect on His will and choice, He simply puts the circumstances and lets us choose, and he knows what we will choose out of His divine and perfect omniscience, the only thing He doesn’t do (although they never say He can’t) is to force us to do what we don’t want to. One thing is to say that God can do and another is to say that God won’t do. The Bible says God created the universe, although it doesn’t say He created another universe, this doesn’t mean or imply that he can’t. Molinism doesnt pretend to limit God in any way, it just shows how God has decided to work.

[LukeBowman]

I don't think Molina was a heretic. can someone give a source of a heretical belief of his? thanks!

[crowley]

Horrible misrepresentation, but still better than calvinism which also was declared a heresy... as God decreed.

[dianaistoc]

This video is so misleading. And just gives false Information about Molinism.

[phoenixstudios]

I'd be embarrassed to have posted this

[TheLysineContingency]

“God’s will is determined by our will” is either a straw man or a misunderstanding of the view

[Landon_R]

Same old objections to Molinism....same old lack of understanding of Molinism. These "problems" only demonstrate that the video's author doesn't understand middle knowledge or God's sovereign use of our libertarian free will. God knowing what you will freely choose does not mean that's the only thing you could have chosen. You could have chosen differently, and if you did, God would have known something different. This objection always sounds so clever to detractors of Molinism, but not only is it bad logic, it's an assault on God's omniscience. Why do detractors insist that God can only know what we WILL do and think it's impossible for Him to know what we WOULD do? They may not articulate in that way--although some do--but that is always the crux of this weak argument against Molinism. It's either a blatant misunderstanding of God's middle knowledge of our libertarian free will, or it's a limitation placed on the (not-really)omniscience of God.