Jordan Peterson - My Problems with Ayn Rand

Jordan Peterson explains his problems with Ayn Rand's political ideas.

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Original video:

[Liberty-Vault]

Do you agree with Jordan Peterson's critiques of Ayn Rand? Why or why not?

[julian]

You cut the video just as it was getting good!

[rareword]

“It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest. We address ourselves not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities, but of their advantages”
“Individual Ambition Serves the Common Good.”
Adam Smith

[markvoelker]

In this snip Peterson’s problem(s) with Rand are not elucidated. But he does seem to be disturbed by the word “selfish”. I’m guessing his problem with her ideas has something to do with misunderstanding what Rand means by “selfish”.

[MegaDeano]

Wow these guys are just so next level . One guys listening and actually critiquing information, and only commenting when it progresses the discussion, and JP taking correction to his thought process without feeling the need to defend his position . So impressive

[wolfpat]

I've always considered Rand's use of the word "selfish" to be a poke in the eye of those who use it as an insult, a descriptor of those less than themselves. While they call someone in pursuit of their own interests "Selfish" as a form of disparagement, she turns it around to show the virtue of it.

[PsychicAlchemy]

Acts of self-sacrifice for the good of others can be a noble, transcendent, and even self-interested thing to strive for, but not at the expense of one's own stability, and not at the expense of the other's growth. Sometimes, a helping hand allows a person to overcome truly unfair and insurmountable obstacles; other times it robs them of growth. Navigating this space is difficult.

Nevertheless, if one wishes to consistently care for others across time, they must first act in their own self interest. If you can't stand on your own, how can you support others?

[McMillanScottish]

This clip cuts off right as it gets going. I never found out what Jordan's problem was with Ayn Rand.

[MsEagle]

"I swear by life and my love of it that I will not live for the sake of another man, nor will I ask him to live for the sake of mine." Ayn Rand in Atlas Shrugged.

[markwrichards]

I'd much rather deal with someone that is selfish as defined by Rand than someone claiming to be altruistic or put others before themselves. When you are dealing with someone that is pursuing their own rational, long term self interest then you understand their goals and motivation. And if you are operating from the same point of view, you can quickly determine how you can work with one another to the benefit of both.

But when you are dealing with someone that is professed selfless and altruistic you can not truly understand their motivation.

For those that jump to the love of a parent for their children and other similar selfless acts that doesn't diminish her argument. Rand said she was intentionally provacative in her use of the word selfish just to get people to pay attention to the idea of rational self interest.

[mikepaulus]

She wrote a book called The Virtue Of Selfishness that lays this out.

[mrshankerbillletmein]

Sue said when the productive need the permission of the unproductive in order to produce you have a problem. I remember her for this.

[jeffbeamer]

I would love to get Dr Peterson a copy of Ayn Rand's first book We The Living. I think he would enjoy her story about the Soviet Union. (especially given his interest in Solzhenitsyn)

[Judge]

“Pardon me while I overthink this…”

Love Dr Peterson and I’m always impressed to hear him think. In this case however, we may be going through some recreational gymnastics and contortions to demystify what basically amounts to “rational self interest”, the most reliable and pure force in human interactions, as championed by Ayn Rand. That said, his off the cuff deconstruction of human psyche was wonderful to observe, as always.

[hugh-johnfleming]

I read Rand having seen 'The Fountainhead' as a teen. It is a beautiful movie. My Dad was a Libertarian, the real kind– borderline Anarchist.

It did inform my life. When my equipment leasing business hit a hard plateau back in the '80s I was forced to not take a salary for nearly four years, in my own self interest. We used savings and personal resources to make payroll many months.

It all paid well in the end when I was forced to retire, my heart, 10 years ago. I was able to sell the business at a premium. We still had contracts with a lot of those same clients that we struggled to keep. And never layed off or fired a single employee.

[UDPride]

This is how opened minded people discuss deeply complex issues. They both understand that part of defining the conversation is defining the terms/words because thats the foundation of the debate. There must be a baseline from which all convo starts from. I wish everyone could engage like these two and really open their minds to being both challenged and enlightened.

[centercannothold]

Jordan's problem with Ayn Rand is that he's never understood her.

[wodorify]

He doesn’t really answer it. Cut to short.

[jakealden]

I have come to appreciate listening to people who are actually thinking things through and hashing things out with the objective of reaching common ground or finding truth, regardless of whether not I agree with anything or everything they say. We have so little of this type of discourse in our society today.

[jeffreypaulross]

I don’t care what Jordan says, my two favorite books are The Atlashead and Fountain Shrugged!