Debate Review: Does Faith Precede Regeneration?

This will be a review of a recent debate I had with Jeffery Rice of Open Air Theology on Marlon Wilson's channel The Gospel Truth over the topic: Does Faith Precede Regeneration?

Adding to the commentary will be JP Uncut, who engaged live during the debate!

We will go over parts of the debate, primarily Jeff's points and Cross-examination. I will share some of my slides that I intended to share during the debate b/c the screen share was not working at the time.


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Watch the Rest of the Series:

Session 1: • Two-Part Romans | Session 1: The Ambi...

Session 2: • Two-Part Romans Session 2 | Historica...

Session 3: • Two-Part Romans Session 3 | An Overvi...

Session 4: • Two-Part Romans Session 4 | Weighing ...
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In His Name; for His glory,

Living Christian

[tomferguson]

Jason - I am at least ONE of those guys who listened to your debate with James White and DID get a pebble in my shoe. I've been listening to Leighton Flowers and saw some of your interaction with him and ended up watching your debate. I salute your courage in going against such a fire breather, and definitely think you did the right thing. Chrome vanadium kajones (if I can say that). Now I'm pacing the floor in eager anticipation of the rest of the 2PR series, which I'm anxious to share with my very Calvinistic church. Thank you!!!

[sharonlouise]

Good segment guys! I thought it was horrible how they laughed.

Saying that we are trying to understand the Scriptures because we're after truth and we bend our knee to the truth isn't helpful. Calvinists believe they're after truth and bend their knee to that truth. Even as a Jehovah's Witness in the mid 70's I would have affirmed that as well. Warren's suggestion about pressing a single verse is correct. I did this a while back with a Calvinist over John 6:44 by explaining that Jesus used the same exact word "draw" in John 12:32 and the Father drawing is absent. He kept asking me, "well, tell me, how does that happen?" "What does that look like?" "You have to explain this." "What does it mean?" All I had to do was keep saying the same thing over and over. "Jesus doesn't tell me how He does it, but because He said that is what He will do, then I believe He is doing it." I told him at one point, "I believe Jesus IS drawing all men to Himself because Jesus said He would do it. Either Jesus is speaking truth here or He isn't. Are you saying He is lying?" When I expressed that maybe his presuppositions were getting in the way of understanding a very simple and true statement from Jesus, that's when he stopped. Calvinists do exactly the same thing as Jehovah's Witnesses...running off to other texts. You have to keep them focused on one text and say you're unwilling to move on to something else. We all have a tendency of failing to see what the text actually is saying because we believe we already know what the text actually is saying. This is so bad for us because we miss so much of what actually is being said.

[larrybedouin]

In whom also we [Ephesians] have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated *according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will*

That we [Christ Apostles] should be to the praise of his glory, *who first trusted in Christ*

In whom ye also trusted, *after* that ye *heard the word of truth* the gospel of your salvation: in whom also *after that ye believed* ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
{Ephesians 1:11-14}

[matthewleo]

"if you abide in my word you will know the truth and the truth will set you free" "IF you seek me with your whole heart you will find" I feel it's a process. There's promises, but something we have to do and stay doing it like seeking, abiding.. maybe it all starts with a mustard seed of faith... And, no I'm not saying we save ourselves, more a continual relationship.. "because a you set your heart on me, I'll deliver you

[MasonK]

Jeff should have not called you a “Leighton-ist” straight up disrespectful to make assumptions about how you arrive at your conclusions.

[thirdplace]

Very low-hanging fruit. There isn’t a single verse in scripture that asserts someone is born again before faith and receiving Jesus Christ.

[R.L.KRANESCHRADTT]

21:45 True. Most Calvinists, with the possible exception of those raised as Presbyterians, were admittedly believers before becoming convinced of TULIP. Affirming TULIP doesn't preclude anyone from being a Christian, IMO. They can be saved regardless of how confused they may become about "how" and "why" it happened. The problem is in going forward in that doctrine. Eventually, it undermines the trustworthiness of God. And casts a long and dark shadow over his character. It does serious damage to a believers personal relationship with our Heavenly Father which Christ gave his life to restore. Ultimately, it plants the seed of doubt one is actually loved, personally, by the God they are trying to worship.
If you doubt the love is real, there's no basis for meaningful relationship on this side of the Grassy Knoll.
That's Satan's favorite part of Calvinism.

[samuelrosenbalm]

Okay, so let's just say that faith precedes regeneration. So while we are still dead in trespasses, and while there is nothing good in us, and while we are not seeking God (Rom 3:11), we are able to produce, from within our own fallen, evil hearts, a living faith that is unto salvation. And other sinners, having been extended the same measure of grace, do not produce within themselves a faith unto salvation. So therefore the principal difference between the one who is saved and the one who perishes is something pertaining to us. Again, if God extends equal, prevenient grace to two men - one responds positively and the other responds negatively, the saving difference between the two men is something inherent in the men themselves. Seeing as how one man chooses to exercise faith whereas the other does not, this is clearly a condition of the heart. Yet, you would say that the heart is capable to pleasing God through faith (as it's written, without faith it is impossible to please Him) while the man is still in the flesh (as it's written, those in the flesh cannot please God)???

I reject that. My friend, I am not better than the worst man in hell. If so much as one iota of my salvation was contingent upon me to do anything correctly - whether believe correctly, obey correctly, persevere correctly, etc - I would be without hope. If I believe to the saving of the soul, it is not because I was wise enough to smart enough to make the superior free will choice. It's because Jesus Christ is a perfect savior. How much pride does a man have to have to genuinely believe that he cooperates in his own salvation? Yet this is precisely what you are implying when you suggest that free will rather than total grace is the catalyst in one's response to the Gospel and their enduring to the end. It is God who begins a work and finishes that work. All of salvation is HIS doing.

[Luinilblue]

I believe that just like it’s a seed that gives birth to a human birth between a woman and man, it’s the seed of the word of God that produces life in the spirit ❤hope I’m explaining my self 😅

[larrybedouin]

And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that *the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe*

And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
{Acts 15:7-8}

[walnoemispoyt]

Does faith precede regeneration? Yes! End of the debate.

Faith can only make sense if there exists free will otherwise we would be no different from robots who pretend to go through the physical motions outwardly of having to look like having faith. There is a reason the dictionary has a universal definition of free will and faith. These are the same linguists who created the exegetical techniques to critically examine the critical text who also create the dictionaries that we use for common speech.

Don't let Calvinists pervert the terms and definitions that we universally use to have a meaningful conversation.

[laurakosch]

3:47
How could Jason participate in a debate affirming regeneration before salvation?
Sorry, super confused.

How do you enthusiastically defend and promote a lie?

Am I missing something 🤔