Debate Teacher Reacts: James White vs. Leighton Flowers

On the latest Debate Teacher Reacts, I look at an "in-house" debate between Christians! This one is James White vs. Leighton Flowers on the issue of which soteriological view Romans 9 teaches. Who ultimately bested the other? Find out in this episode!

[lancewren]

I appreciate that after watching the full review I still have no idea what your personal opinion is on the subject. Great breakdown.

[Fassnight]

Flowers does himself a disservice by making anti-calvinism his whole life

[ElleeZee]

When I took Hermeneutics in college, we were absolutely taught to use other scripture outside of the targeted scripture to help exegete the passage. Scripture helps interpret scripture.

[mylifeintheusa]

Flowers is always trying to prove Calvinism is wrong. I also hear a lot of anger in his voice. It sounds like he is bitter and angry for being a Calvinist in the past and now tries to "kill" Calvinists - not out of love.

[Cmac]

The problem with debating romans 9 is you can't use only romans 9 to exegete it.

James white leaves romans 9 as well and seems ok with it when he does it.

I agree though that leighton is debating calvinism as a whole a lot.... in which I believe he is correct but muddied the debate a little.

[IkeyP]

I think Flowers has a personal vendetta against Calvinism based on his personal experience with it and his personal "deconstruction" of it.

[rainydaymatt]

Dr. White is brilliant and has taught me many things, but his haughtiness is really grating.

Also, Flowers asked about what God restrained apart from His own determinations, which is a brilliant way of putting a concern I always have when a firm Calvinist like White talks - as he often does - about God restraining evil. I wish we'd heard a specific response from White, even if elsewhere.

[BrotherMikeBCSF]

James White has helped me to embrace Reformed Theology after 30 years and Flowers helps me to Never go back !

[Ephesians-rzzp]

Flowers had an agenda from the start. He basically just gave an anti Calvinism sermon instead of engaging with Dr. White on Romans 9.

[HectorTheGr]

This debate was a tough one for me to get through because I was getting very frustrated with Flowers' "style" of argumentation. Flowers is, no doubt, a smart guy but he did very poorly here. White actually stuck to the text and clearly won the debate.

[pru]

This was nearly as bad as White vs Tassi. Flowers danced around the debate topic while White walked straight through the text and its context. Flowers doesn't stray nearly as far into nonsense as Tassi, but his single minded dedication to Anti-calvinism does not help him with Biblical catagories, logic, etc.

[j]

I think Flowers should watch this if he wants to improve. I think he was fighting in a higher weight class (I don't know boxing, so my analogy my be waaaay off) but that is how you learn and improve. As much as I loved cross examination in court, it took many years and embarrassing mistakes to get good at it.

I'm not a Calvinist, but I have a lot of respect for Dr. White. I believe we agree on most things and I should probably watch more of his content.

[bigdave]

I have never been able to engage in a civil conversation with an anti-Calvinist in which they specifically deal with texts that directly deal with election, predestination etc. They don’t answer questions when asked but simply move on to the next ant-Calvinist bitter rant.

[TheFreedThinkerPodcast]

It doesn’t matter what side you agree is true: Flowers just isn’t a good debater and White is clearly actually trained and study debate tactics. White hands down won the debate. Clear as day. Again, winning a debate doesn’t mean your position is true. But when Flowers’ fans hype this up as if Flowers dominated White (or even held his own with him) they show how biased they are.

[duncanwashburn]

Wise Disciple (20:30 ish) - Leighton's questioning culminated in Romans 9:18.

I'd agree that Leighton is not dong a real good job.

[mayorrodgers]

I passionately disagree with whites position. Having said that I have to objectively agree that he won this debate. He is a very skilled debater. Flowers confessed, at the beginning of the debate that he was new to debating, and it showed.

[wesleynovak]

Thanks for this breakdown. I found your channel from Trent Horn’s. I have never debated but these sorts of breakdowns are helpful when thinking about engaging someone.

[TheFreedThinkerPodcast]

Ha and I’m glad he pointed out that interrupting during cross examination is not only appropriate but EXPECTED when you think someone isn’t answering your question. People get stuck on it being “rude” but in debate it’s perfectly acceptable.

[SuperExodus]

"Flower's is debating Calvinism." That's all he does. He's a broken record.

[trey]

White completely mopped the floor with Flowers. Flowers never won a single point. Not to mention he never even dealt with the topic of debate. It was a complete embarrassment for Flowers. Flowers doesn't like what scripture says and it's very obvious.