Leighton Flowers VS James White: The John 6:44 Debate | Does John 6:44 Teach Unconditional Election?

James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries and Leighton Flowers of Soteriology 101 will take a hyper-focused look at John's Gospel and exactly what it means when Jesus says, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them." This was a formal, moderated debate.

Thank you to our host, @firstlutheranhouston6033

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00): Introduction
(04:27): James White Opener
(24:45): Leighton Flowers Opener
(47:48): James White Rebuttal
(56:04): Leighton Flowers Rebuttal
(1:04:28): Brief Intermission
(1:09:28): James White Cross-Ex
(1:39:06): Leighton Flowers Cross-Ex
(1:50:00): James White Closing
(1:55:07): Leighton Flowers Closing
(2:00:34): Q&A

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#LeightonFlowers #JamesWhite #John6Debate #John644 #Calvinism #UnconditionalElection

[fredmiller]

It's funny and ironic that God would SOVEREIGNLY pick a guy named FLOWERS to challenge the high priests of TULIP! 😅

[larrybedouin]

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, *He that heareth* my word, *and believeth on him that sent me* hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
{John 5:24}

[evaadams]

I have struggled with Calvenism for awhile. My bestfriends are Calvinists but two of us are dubious. Leighton lays it down in a way so biblically clear. Thank you very much Leighton.

[ourvioletroom]

I’ve been a Calvinist for years. But then Flowers came into my life. The Bible says we will be known by our love. I was split down the middle on what was the correct view. I see no love from White. No kindness. No patience. I see that in many Calvinist’s. Flowers is an example of a true believer. White reminds me of a jerky teenager. Unbelievable

[larrybedouin]

“It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard *and* hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”

[jamesgrosso]

Fantastic presentation by Flowers. Great power point and easy to follow. Very consistent, no mental.gymastics or appeal to mystery, special pleading and or contradictions.

[larrybedouin]

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, *He that believeth on me* hath everlasting life.”

[jehhmar]

Glad i discovered Dr. Flowers through this debate. ❤ from India

[JesusSavesJn]

Dr. White's arguments were biblically and skillfully dismantled by a clear presentation of truth.

[jesuschristsaves]

Leighton, you’re a blessing to the kingdom.

[randywheeler]

I used to respect James White but after watching his post debate review and how he lied and deceitfully edited the debate to make himself look favorable I now see him as a deceitful snake
Leighton flowers did an excellent job in this debate

[TreeOfLifeWoodworking]

I say this as someone coming into this debate who is a huge fan of Dr White debates and had never even heard of Flowers. White was whiney, rude, and completely reprehensible. For someone who interrupts the other so much, he sure freaks out when he is cut off. He wont answer questions. He wont even debate in good faith. This is not the same Dr White from the Great Debates of the 90s. That was an honest man of God. This... is a shell of the man in comparison

[michellehand]

4th time watching the debate! It gets better every time!

[ALavaPenguin]

I am actually a big fan of a lot of James White's stuff, and regularly do listen to most episodes of his show, enjoy a lot of his books, and think he is a pretty smart and good guy, etc, however, I think the calvinism thing is a total blindspot for him. He doesn't seem to be able to understand even the other side [Leighton's] view accurately.

[PrudenceMcFrugal]

I know that you said you wish you didn't get preachy during debates but I'm here for it! Your position entails preaching the Gospel. How could you not get so passionate?

[windowsscreen]

As a Former Calvinist now Orthodox Christian I appreciate your work

[a.arellano]

John 6:45 is clear in any language, but also by basic greek, it says. "... Every one that HEARD on the part of the Father and LEARNED, COMES to me" those verbs (in capital letters) are in the Actjve voice, which means that the subject makes the action of the those verbs, here the direct subject is "EVERY ONE that... " So: all are taught by the Father, but the Father doesn't drag them by force, because : "every one " MAKES the ACTION of those verbs. To be dragged by the Father, those verbs should be in the passive voice, which means that the subject only suffers passively the action of the verbs.

[HKFromAbove]

The opening statement that James White saying 'since the reformation' is telling.

[johnprice]

JW is saying we can't come until we're given faith, yet in Romans, it's said God gives us all a measure of faith. Faith is not a work.

[philipatoz]

When the late-great theologian Norman Geisler wrote his excellent book ("Chosen But Free") refuting Five Point / Reformed beliefs about salvation, James White responded with his book, "The Potter's Freedom." And so in his SECOND Edition of "Chosen But Free" (copyright 1999 / 2001), Geisler devoted a chapter reviewing White's response to his book, titled "A Response to James White's The Potters Freedom." And in that chapter, Geisler documents a shockingly MASSIVE number of errors, misunderstandings of his (Geisler's) positions, wrongful attributions of the stances of others to Geisler (even ones Geisler had refuted himself), including logical fallacies, theologisms, ad hominems, name calling, poisoning the well, straw man, false disjunctives, non sequiturs, internal inconsistencies, misrepresentations, sidestepping the big issues, redefining terms that hide error, theological doublespeak, pride and exclusivism, improper exegesis, significant errors, etc. In all, Geisler lists over 11 PAGES of such problems and errors with White's book. White isn't anywhere near the caliber of theologian Geisler was, and "Potters Freedom" makes this crystal clear. But White IS a good lawyer, spinning words and cherrypicking verses that fit his TULIP, while simultaneously ignoring many relevant passages that directly contradict it. I'd advise one read that second edition of Geisler's book - you'll be amazed at how comprehensive and thorough it is in covering the issue and responding to Reformed contentions! Geisler's book has a terrific index of both issues and the relevant Scriptures and how Reformed theologians have wrongly used and distorted their plain meanings.