The Argument James White Never Answers w/ @EricHernandez

Dr. Leighton Flowers, Director of Evangelism and Apologetics for Texas Baptists, discusses the argument that #JamesWhite won't answer. Leighton is Joined by Eric Hernandez to discuss the recent debate over #Molinism and #Calvinism between William Lane Craig and James White on @PremierUnbelievable

If #Calvinists posit that people are free to act according to their greatest desire, yet they believe that God sovereignly and unchangeably decrees everything that comes to pass...where do our greatest desires come from?

*Spoiler Alert*

On Calvinism, our greatest desires are decreed by God--even the bad ones.

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[ericsmith]

Jeremiah 19:5 when the Israelites were burning their children to Molech He says, depending on your translation, that he never intended or thought of such a thing...yet the Israelites did. Hmmm...I thought He determined (thought/intended) all things.

[DrVarner]

I just want him to get to the points of contention...White just never gets to it.

[jackshadow]

Your will is subject to your desires. I think all Christians across the spectrum can agree with that. If your desires are evil, you need the Holy Spirit, you need to renew your mind, you need salvation. Calvinists believe that God gives you your evil desires, which is non-biblical nonsense. Why do they believe that? Because of their incorrect definition of sovereignty. Calvinists can’t accept a reality where God allows things which are also against His will. At the eschaton, what God allows and what He wills will merge. But we’re not there yet.

[omnitheus]

I like your chain link analogy Leighton. All these causitive secondaries etc are there to mask this very issue. As you said no matter how many links in the chain it still comes back to this simple point. Why did God cause their desire?

[robertjacobsen]

The God I know is a great enough God, that he can do his will around the free will he gives to mankind! I don't get the argument/problem!?

[ApologeticsBenJoiner]

Here's a weird connection. In early America, the Puritans were the leaders in terms of numbers and strongly Calvinist. They built Harvard and Yale. These schools then shifted to liberal theology. And so this same group became the leader in the liberal protestant American movement. As they decreased faith in Jesus, Marxist politics became their new gospel. And now Southern Baptist Theological Seminary made waves years ago for being strongly Calvinist. And guess what? Now that very seminary is making waves for far left politics. Let me hasten to add that there's a clear push back from people like James White on the political stuff. But I can't help but notice this mysterious connection.

[thm]

Honestly in my life I found few systems as contradictory as the reformed system. My God does not contradict Himself or is inconsistent in His actions and thoughts.

[Myrdden]

Quoting that "God is not the author of evil" is the only way Calvinists avoid the designation of heretics, imho, when they claim that God causes all things, even the evil thoughts and desires of men. To claim that God causally determines everything that comes to pass, even all evil, but then say that God is not the author of evil, it to talk out of both sides of their mouths. It is rank hypocrisy that they cannot explain, and so White won't answer the question.

[EmperrHrde]

Calvinists *never* have to defend their views, because *they're* the ones who always get to frame the debate. They don't need to defend their views when they always force the opposition to stay on the defensive all the time.

[dw]

*UNDERSTANDING CALVINISM'S HIDDEN MEANINGS"

1) "You meant this for evil"
In Calvinism means:
"Calvin's god infallibly decreed you to mean this for evil and did not permit you to do otherwise"

2) "God restrained Joseph's brothers from killing Joseph"
In Calvinism means:
"Calvin's god restrained himself from decreeing Joseph's brothers kill Joseph"

3) "God limits man's evil and accomplishes god's purpose through that evil"
In Calvinism means:
"Calvin's god decrees man to only do very specific evils - and by those very specific evils - god accomplishes his purposes of making very specific evils come to pass"

4) "Men act out of the desires of their hearts"
In Calvinism means:
"Calvin's god AUTHORS every desire that will come to pass within men's hearts and determines their every action and makes those actions irresistibly come to pass - along with those desires he AUTHORED them to irresistibly have.

[raygsbrelcik]

"GOD is NOT willing that ANY should perish----but that ALL should
Come to Repentance." Or, that "ALL, " would turn FROM their Sins!!

[AD-endq]

Calvinists use biblical language but their systematic perverts the words

[Rightlydividing-wxxb]

I've never heard a Calvinist preach to an audience as though Calvinism is true. They always preach like a non Calvinist except when "trying" to explain or teach Calvinism specifically. Calvinism is truly like a cult and as clearly ridiculous as KJV onlyism or Roman Catholicism, etc. They all have zero explicit text in scripture, they have their person besides Jesus our Lord for their ex- biblical doctrines, they teach a false Gospel, they teach that one cannot know for sure they are saved ( Calvinists believe one cannot know if one is really one of the elect except for a lifetime of consistent Holy living), they all ignore overwhelmingly clear, explicit text in God's breathed words that thoroughly refute their doctrines, etc.

[eugenejoseph]

I've come to realize that people like White argue to win, regardless of the validity of their argument. Wise people debate to gain wisdom.

[daddada]

Its resonate to the reality, calvinism makes God bad.

[duncescotus]

We might to do well to expand this conversation to include the ONGOING work of Christ, in his priestly role "ever living to make intercession" on our behalf!

[saraircrew]

Determinism is nuanced! Don't you get it??

[ALavaPenguin]

Could someone explain to me why under Calvinism the Harry Potter books are any less inspired than the Bible? You could at best say sure the Bible is about real events while Harry Potter is about fiction, but that woudn't really pertain to its inspiredness. Harry Potter under Calvinism is just one of God's inspired works of creative fiction that He wrote through JK Rowling. Maybe you could say it wasn't through the Holy Spirit, but instead through whatever mechanism of determinism God uses, but at the end of the day it is still God's creation letter for letter, regardless of which part of the Trinity did it.

So how is it it that [in this example, but obviously could be applied to every single bit of literature or film, song, whatever] Harry Potter written through JK Rowling in any significant way ANY LESS inspired than Romans is inspired through Paul?

I mean, I am just honestly curious how this is defended?

[ethantucker]

This sounds like the modern version of the age old “Why does He find fault? For who can resist His will?” Is God in the wrong if His decree includes that we be born with original sin? If that makes Him culpable, how is open theism not the only answer to the question of evil?

[philosophyze]

James White uses a "Motte & Bailey".