Jay Dyer & David Erhan on Penal Substitionary Atonement

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[therealMedWhite]

St. John of Damascus, Exposition of the Orthodox Faith, Book 4, Ch. 18: For neither as God nor as man was He ever forsaken by the Father, nor did He become sin or a curse, nor did He require to be made subject to the Father. For as God He is equal to the Father and not opposed to Him nor subjected to Him; and as God, He was never at any time disobedient to His Begetter to make it necessary for Him to make Him subject. Appropriating, then, our person and ranking Himself with us, He used these words. For we are bound in the fetters of sin and the curse as faithless and disobedient, and therefore forsaken.

[olerocker]

That John MacArthur statement "in this lies the true meaning of the cross." is thoroughly refuted by Saint Gregory Palamas in his homily on "The Cross". For a great blessing I recommend strongly reading that homily, especially for those reformed folks who are digging deeper into the meaning of the Cross.

[posavka]

Thank you for all these great videos, as an eastern cradle orthodox who grew up in the west (majority protestant) you help me understand and relearn much and especially how to recognize heretical protestant teaching that caused me at times much confusion and anguish. God bless you!

[CosmicMystery]

Another great video, David. Would you be willing to address the recent video released by Gavin Ortlund? It's basically a brief overview of why we should all be Protestants? It's a five minute video, but contains a lot of misinformation and downright dishonesty. His charming demeanor seems to make people overlook his bad arguments. Thanks.

[Nektariosthebased]

Yo David. How can we meet up in Istanbul?!?!

[SimonPertus]

I have an honest question because I'm trying to understand:

How would the OC interpret the following verses if St. John of Damascus says that Christ didnot become sin or a curse?

"For He hath *made Him to be sin* for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him." 2 Corinthians 5:21
"Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, *being made a curse* for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:" Galatians 3:13

[agiasf]

David, would you or Jay or both of you, please make a video giving, kindly but firmly & convincingly, the Orthodox correction to the many errors in the video at the link below?
It was sent to me by a dear, friend, who holds the preacher, DJ, in high esteem.

All I was able to do was tell him:

I listened to what you sent me. The Lord's Kingdom is not 1000 yrs. It is without end. 1000 is merely a symbolic number. It stands for not eternity, but a long (not a short) time from His Ascension to His Second Coming (in glory, at the End of history, to judge the living and the dead).
Also the reward of the faithful is the Lord Himself. He is the reward we seek.
DJ is right in saying every knee will bend to Him on the Last Day & it will be too late for those who rejected Him during their lives, prior to that.
But he's wrong on pretty much everything else.
___

David Jeremiah, What is the millennium?

[boochparadise]

As the asker, I appreciate the response. I didn't want to dominate the chat on this one topic, but I did have a follow up question. Ultimately the answer went into significate details on the theory of Penal Substitution, but it seems the general algebra is the same. Our sin separated us from God. A price was required. That price was paid by Christ on our behalf. But then it sounds like Calvin's fault is just taking it too far, saying the price is damnation, separation, etc.
This is in contrast to much of what I've read of Orthodox apologetics, which often says something along the lines of: "those crazy protestants think that mean old God couldn't forgive our sins without killing something, so He killed His son. But we don't believe that, we believe that Christ died as a means of sneaking into hades so He could destroy death."
But in these cases it seems like the answer is to ignore sin as a problem altogether and say that Christ exclusively dealt with death. That's what seems to be contradicted by the text.

[genez]

Jesus himself never went under damnation by the Father. That is true. As our substitute, He went through the *effects* of what would have been *our damnation* for being born as corrupted flesh from birth.

[sstudios]

1. It is the nature of things that man does not have a legal problem with God. That is to say, the nature of our problem is not forensic. The universe is not a law-court.

2. It is the nature of things that Christ did not come to make bad men good, but to make dead men live. This is to say that the nature of our problem is not moral but existential or ontological. We have a problem that is rooted in the very nature of our existence, not in our behaviour. We behave badly because of a prior problem. Good behaviour will not correct the problem.

3. It is the nature of things that human beings were created to live through communion with God. We were not created to live as self-sufficient individuals marked largely by our capacity for choice and decision. To restate this: we are creatures of communion, not creatures of consumption.

[tjkhan]

Could you please comment on the meaning of 1 Corinthians 15:3

[zach]

@4:05 2 Cor 5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Galatians 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree” ),

[isavedharlem]

Jesus asked God why he turned his back on him while he was on the cross

[mkbr]

Throwing out vague statements like "it's not Trinitarian" is not a refutation. How is it not Trinitarian? This is all just word salad which tries to make PSA look bad when nothing coherent was offered in it's place.