Debate: 'Is Water Baptism Required for Salvation?” Dean Meadows and Mike Winger

Debate topic “Is Water Baptism Required for Salvation?”
Positions: Dean Meadows; that water baptism is required for salvation. Mike Winger; that water baptism is not required for salvation.

Verse reference map: in many instances we come back to a verse after it is first discussed. I only included the first time a passage is brought up in this map.
Acts 2 vs 36-41 – 2:56
Matthew 3 vs 11 – 8:30
Mark 1 vs 4-5 – 11:00
Luke 24 vs 44-49 – 15:34
Acts 10 vs 43-48 – 29:09
Acts 11 vs 15 - 32:49
Eph 1 vs 13, 2 Cor 1 vs 22 - 45:07
Colossians 2 6-12 – 59:53
Romans 2 vs 23 – 01:06:23
Acts 8 vs 38-39 – 01:22:09
Thief on the Cross (Luke 23 vs 39-43, Mark 15 vs 32, Matthew 27 vs 41-44) 01:24:53
Hebrews 9 vs 16-18 - 01:28:33
Romans 4 vs 23-25 – 01:46:10 and 03:10:59
Acts 18 vs 24-28 - 01:59:40
Acts 19 vs 1-5 – 02:07:43
Romans 5 vs 20 through 6 vs 4 – 02:17:18
Romans 6 vs 15-17 – 02:19:20
Romans 2 vs 26-29 – 02:24:34
1 Cor 12 vs 13 – 02:26:58
Romans 1 vs 5 – 02:32:58
Romans 16 vs 26 – 02:34:14
Romans 4 – 03:10:12
Romans 10 vs 9-13 – 02:39:03
Acts 22 vs 16 – 02:54:12
Joel 2 vs 32 – 02:56:47
Acts 22 – 02:58:15
Acts 9 vs 18-19 – 03:04:47
Gen 4 vs 26, 21 vs 33, Acts 2 vs 21, 7 vs 59, 1 Cor 1 vs 2, 2 Tim 2 vs 22 – 03:05:57
Hebrews 11 vs 8-9 – 03:14:26
Matt 18 vs 18-20 – 03:43:10
1 Peter 3 vs 18-22 – 03:52:51

[MikeWinger]

Verse reference map: in many instances we come back to a verse after it is first discussed. I only included the first time a passage is brought up in this map.
Acts 2 vs 36-41 – 2:56
Matthew 3 vs 11 – 8:30
Mark 1 vs 4-5 – 11:00
Luke 24 vs 44-49 – 15:34
Acts 10 vs 43-48 – 29:09
Acts 11 vs 15 - 32:49
Eph 1 vs 13, 2 Cor 1 vs 22 - 45:07
Colossians 2 6-12 – 59:53
Romans 2 vs 23 – 01:06:23
Acts 8 vs 38-39 – 01:22:09
Thief on the Cross (Luke 23 vs 39-43, Mark 15 vs 32, Matthew 27 vs 41-44) 01:24:53
Hebrews 9 vs 16-18 - 01:28:33
Romans 4 vs 23-25 – 01:46:10 and 03:10:59
Acts 18 vs 24-28 - 01:59:40
Acts 19 vs 1-5 – 02:07:43
Romans 5 vs 20 through 6 vs 4 – 02:17:18
Romans 6 vs 15-17 – 02:19:20
Romans 2 vs 26-29 – 02:24:34
1 Cor 12 vs 13 – 02:26:58
Romans 1 vs 5 – 02:32:58
Romans 16 vs 26 – 02:34:14
Romans 4 – 03:10:12
Romans 10 vs 9-13 – 02:39:03
Acts 22 vs 16 – 02:54:12
Joel 2 vs 32 – 02:56:47
Acts 22 – 02:58:15
Acts 9 vs 18-19 – 03:04:47
Gen 4 vs 26, 21 vs 33, Acts 2 vs 21, 7 vs 59, 1 Cor 1 vs 2, 2 Tim 2 vs 22 – 03:05:57
Hebrews 11 vs 8-9 – 03:14:26
Matt 18 vs 18-20 – 03:43:10
1 Peter 3 vs 18-22 – 03:52:51

[tylerhare]

One of the most admirable aspects of this debate: before combatting many of each other’s points they clarify the point to make sure they are addressing what was actually said instead of misrepresenting each other. Great example of unity in disagreement

[a.kay.c]

I really commend you both for doing this. I think this is a perfect example of what Christians should look like when debating beliefs.

[TRNoble]

I am in my first hour to the debate, and I just wanted to say I really appreciate both of you, how you speak to each other, and if there is confusion or a disagreement, the kind way you both are speaking, how you both work through transitioning to another point, thank you. It's encouraging and edifying to watch this.

[samuelcarvalho]

More than learning about baptism, I think this video is such a beautiful example of how Christians can respectfully and lovingly talk about their secondary differences.

Kuddos to both you guys. Watching you guys debate is so heart warming.

[YankeeStacking]

Here’s an insidious aspect of baptismal regeneration…and I’ve experienced this first hand! Follow their logic to a very scary conclusion:

Them: You must be baptized to be saved.
Me: Well, I was baptized at a later time after repenting, confessing, and accepting the Gospel by grace through faith.
Them: Then you didn’t believe that your act of baptism saved you?
Me: No. My baptism was a necessary act of obedience after salvation symbolizing new birth through the resurrection of Christ.
Them: Then you trusted in “another gospel” and that baptism doesn’t count. It was just a washing of your outward body.
Me: Then in your eyes I’m not saved?
Them: Nope. Not just in my eyes, but in the view of scripture.
Me: Then how do I get baptized for REAL?
Them: You must be baptized again…by someone who believes and teaches baptismal regeneration.
Me: Who?
Them: Our church.
Me: So no one has gotten saved in any other Christian church teaching against baptismal regeneration?
Them: Nope.
Me: So no one baptized over two thousand years of church history in churches who do not teach baptismal regeneration we’re ever truly saved?
Them: Nope.

🤨

[johnreus]

Good stuff, fellas. I really appreciate the respectful debate.
I find myself somewhere in the middle of this topic. I’m with Mike where clearly there are examples of salvation coming without baptism, so I don’t believe it to be impossible at all for God to save without it. I don’t think we should view baptism as limiting God’s ability to save.
But with that being said, I also believe that the Bible teaches that baptism is for the removal of sins. What’s been interesting to me has been studying out what believers in the first several centuries believed baptism to be, and they unanimously believed it to be how people received forgiveness of their sins.
I don’t think we should be so focused on how often God saves those who haven’t been baptized, but simply focused on obeying and teaching the biblical view on salvation and trusting that God’s sovereignty will carry out love and justice. I certainly hope and believe that that can happen without baptism, but it doesn’t mean that it normally does. Anyway that’s just my humble opinion on things that I’ve been studying out recently.

[kkdoc]

This is my experience watching an in dwelling of the Holy Spirit well before baptism or outward expression of faith. As Americans, my younger atheist sister and I were together in a bed and breakfast in Paris. She was reading a Japanese novel. I was listening to a recorded church sermon. All of a sudden, she sat up in bed and placed her hand over her chest and had a certain glow, an expression of uncertainty, but joy saying “I feel like I’m all filled up. Like I don’t need to take another breath”. When I recognized those “ buzz words” I declared it was the Holy Spirit. Without hesitation, she KNEW and acknowledged that’s what was happening. We danced around the room in joy. From her experience she says she was in the middle of a rapidly flowing stream leading to falls but could easily have stepped out onto a bank, but she decided to go with it and not step out. The next morning, she went outside and the world looked completely different to her even the colors. She went back home to her husband but said nothing about the experience. About 2 weeks later he sits her down having noticed she had changed, and she tearfully told him what happened and that she could “never go back” hoping he would come along side her. That did happen, both were baptized soon after and she became a faithful worship leader. I was so blessed by being allowed to see this happen right in front of me. She had already read some scripture previously trying to help her husband with depression issues, but never expressed any belief. So even though tongues were not evidenced, there is no question I saw something very similar to what happened to Cornelius. It was AMAZING. !!!

[andrekershaw]

There are some good-natured and humorous jabs in here, but really this is THE most cordial debate I have ever heard. Regardless of which case I find more persuasive, I think both gentlemen are really modelling Christ in how they engage with each other.

[BellDavidE]

This was awesome. Not only informative, but I love the spirit in which it was done. Kudos to both of you!

[justjosie]

Ahh, that's another thing I like about your videos, no long introduction! Love how you think.

[Julie-vezo]

Thanks to both of you for being patient with each other and sincerely trying to understand what the other was saying. I believe there would be fewer divisions if more Christian's did this.

[amandawestbrook]

Thank you, Mike, for making this video and having this debate. I am very familiar with his argument of baptismal regeneration. This is a belief that many hold very strongly. You responded so well, keeping everything in context and consistent with scripture. I believe you very clearly proved that there's no case for it outside of the framework he presents.

[pattisnee]

This was a great, respectful debate. I have always believed baptism to be necessary for salvation. I acknowledge that Pastor Mike makes some very good points in regard to Cornelius. I had always took the speaking in tongues as the way God communicated to Peter and the Jews, that Gentiles were now accepted into the Church without converting to Judaism, and that it was not indicative of salvation - they were then Baptized right away as this indicated they were acceptable as is and should be Baptized. I understand that the process of being immersed in water in and of itself is meaningless if there is no faith, belief, confession, repentance. I guess my main problem is not arguing over whether God can save someone without Baptism in a special circumstance - certainly or at what point in the process are you actually saved, but I do have a problem with only having people pray the sinner's prayer to get saved, and not even mentioning Baptism which is often the case. When you look at all of the cases of conversion in Acts - it is the pattern that people believed, were convicted and repented and right away were Baptized. They would take them that very hour as in the case of the Philipian jailer - in the middle of the night and Baptize them. In Acts 2 - 3, 000 people were Baptized right then and there - if it was fine to just say the sinner's prayer and get Baptized later when it was more convenient, why? I just think Baptism is a very important piece of the conversion process and it should not be dismissed or pushed off for some time later as an afterthought. I appreciate that Pastor Mike emphasizes the importance of getting Baptized right away upon coming to Faith in Christ. Also with Paul - he had an encounter with the risen Jesus and in his case they did wait several days, but he was gently chided about tarrying and commanded to arise and be baptized and wash away your sins. Another point - when we are told that he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, this shows the importance of baptism. I don't get the idea that because it says if you don't believe you'll be damned but doesn't specifically say if you aren't baptized you'll be damned. Baptism without belief is meaningless, but if you truly believe you will follow that up with getting Baptized if able or certainly should. I think it's very important to follow the scriptural examples on Baptism.

[suem]

Thank you brother for arguing fair and with love and respect.

[evabreneisen]

Thanks so much. I loved the respectful behavior and focused discussions and the content was just what I was looking for.

[alanylizardo]

this question has been plaguing me as a new christian, if i am really saved because i haven't been baptized yet! thanks for the great education that comes straight from the scripture <3 i can't wait to be baptized, i saw a comment it's like "a graduation ceremony" i like that way of seeing it

[Narrow-Pather]

Jesus Christ was baptized, I'm baptized.

I was going to post verses but Pastor Winger has already posted them.
We may not always understand why Jesus told us to do something, but we'd best do it. Amen

[christian_gamer_guy]

Mike, you are so incredibly gracious and I hope I can act as tactfully and graciously as you when trying to communicate Truth to people.

[gunney]

So cool to see this. I went to college with Dean and I see him watching my favorite YouTube pastor