BAPTISM DEBATE | Is Water Baptism Necessary for Justification?- Jeremiah Nortier vs. Gavin James

Donny Budinsky moderates a formal debate on Baptism between Jeremiah Nortier and Gavin James. Standing For Truth Ministries hosts this debate.

Debate Question - Is Water Baptism Necessary for our Justification Before God?
Affirmative - Gavin James
Negative - Jeremiah Nortier


Standing For Truth Ministries OFFICIAL Website:

Support Standing For Truth:

Interviews Hosted by Standing For Truth:

Debates hosted/moderated by Standing For Truth:

The Evolution CHALLENGE:

End Times Theology Dawn of the Antichrist (Book by Donny Budinsky):

The Endogenous Retrovirus Handbook (Dismantling the Best Evidence for Common Descent):

Special Creation UPDATED and EXPANDED:

[bookchapterverse]

1:19:02 Jeremiah, when backpedaling on listing works and then saying that "submitting is not a work" because it is some sort of weird "submitting in the heart" and "bending the knee of the heart, " changes his tune to YET ANOTHER WORK and says it means "TO BE in agreement with." That corner he paints himself into gets smaller.

Nice work, Gavin. Proud of what you are doing there.

[rotten-saved-wretch]

Awesome debate Donny! Thanks to the 3 of you!! Both cool dudes, and respectable gentleman! Please have them back on again soon! 😃😎

[Rachel-rjtu]

I'm halfway in and I really appreciate Jeremiah's demeanor. Such a fun spirit and kind.

Also Gavin seems so willing to listen and hash out disagreements. Great debate to you both. ❤

[truthwithproof]

The Church of Christ is the only True Church. If you disagree call Truth with Proof on youtube. Let us study.

[bookchapterverse]

1:18:38 "Bend the knee of the heart." 🤣🤣🤣 Serious backpedaling, Jeremiah. Ouch.

[Keepitoriginalministry]

1:45:54 WRONG!! Unbiblical statement from the apologetic dog

[grandpageologist]

I was introduced To this debate around 1968

[KurtBoulter]

Thanks guys.
Firstly, there is ONE baptism.
(Ephesians 4:4-7) "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; {5} One Lord, one faith, one baptism, {6} One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. {7} But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ."
Today, that baptism is by the Word of God. The baptism of belief!
(1 Peter 3:21) "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, ) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:" The good conscience toward God, is the FAITH of Jesus Christ, for it is no longer I that liveth!
(Colossians 2:12) "Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."
(Ephesians 5:26-27) "That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, {27} That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."
(1 Corinthians 1:17-18) "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. {18} For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."
John the Baptist baptized with water, but Jesus Christ does it with?
(Acts 1:5) "For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."
(Matthew 3:11-12) "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: {12} Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."
(Acts 11:15-17) "And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. {16} Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. {17} Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?"
Anyone who believes that you must be baptised with earthly water to be saved, either does not believe the Word of God, does not know the Word of God and have believed men, or does not care and would rather believe the doctrines of men, rejecting the Truth of the Word of God in their hearts!
If you think you are a scholar and go back to the Hebrew and Greek to explain the plain, preserved Word of God, you are only going to deceive yourselves, and deceive the simple-minded who believe you, by re-translating or privately interpreting, the perfect Word of God, as we are commanded not to. (2 Peter 1:20-21) "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. {21} For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."
Repent, for the kingdom of Heaven is close at hand!

[bookchapterverse]

53:43 Jeremiah: "If you do any kind of work, then you are meriting God's favor and it is no longer of grace."

Scripture: "But He gives a greater grace. Therefore it says, “God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble.” James 4: 6

[bookchapterverse]

1:18:00 Jeremiah lists a couple more works that one must do to be saved: "bend the knee before God, " and "submit to [God] in faith." These are both works. These are both in addition to "faith alone." He refutes himself.

Edit: I commented before Gavin calls him out on listing works. Jeremiah backpedals and starts some nonsense about it "beginning at the heart." Nice work, Gavin!

[bookchapterverse]

1:18: 20 Jeremiah makes up a fifth definition for baptism that can be found nowhere in Scripture: "baptism is indicative, it's descriptive of what believers do."

[bookchapterverse]

1:09:57 "I don't believe repentance is a work, " says Jeremiah Nortier. This is not what he says at 1:09:45 when he says "repentance is 'metanoia' which means to change the mind." The work done here is changing. The mind is the object of the work "change." Not only does he say that this change is an intellectual change, but it's also a change of the heart.

Jeremiah has no idea that he advocates for works while saying that one should not do any works.

[bookchapterverse]

25:30 Jeremiah says that works "are anything that display itself in activity of any kind in deed and in action." Remember that Jeremiah has already said that a person needs to "LOOK to Christ" as well as HAVE, PLACE, and PUT faith (23:16, 28:30) as a work necessary for salvation in this video.

[bookchapterverse]

55:17 Jeremiah: "The moment you HAVE faith, you are justified."
"Having" is something a person does. It is a work.
Example: I have to work. What is the verb/action/work in that sentence? It's "have."

Example: I have money. What am I doing/acting/working in that sentence? I am having. I am not "moneying" or "I ing."

He doesn't realize that he wants you to do works, just not the works Scripture and Jesus say that we must do.

[mattvaught]

I think it’s so funny that so many use John Calvin and Augustine to fall back on when we have so many others that were way before them. Polycarp, Iranius and Ignatius some who were taught by the apostles themselves. They looked at faith, repentance and baptism as the way to Christ. Notice I used the word “and” there with repentance and baptism. Because they are all connected just as Peter did on the day of Pentecost. You can’t separate those words no matter how you try, it’s a conjunction word and they go together!

[solochristo]

The problem with Jeremiah's interpretation of "works" in Ephesians 2:8-9 is that in Titus 3:5 Paul clearly and unmistakably says that baptism is not a work of righteousness which we have done.

[bookchapterverse]

1:09:50 "I always see faith and repentance as two sides of the same coin..." a Jeremiah Nortier talking point that is found nowhere in Scripture.

[bookchapterverse]

Gavin James had a great rebuttal and challenged all the unscriptural claims, made-up definitions, and non sequiturs presented by Jeremiah Nortier in his non-negative position (for lack of a better word) in which Jeremiah presented no position according to the affirmative.

[Blues.Fusion]

The thief on the cross?
A soldier who gets saved just before being killed in a foxhole?
If you agree these are in heaven then when did they put on a gown and dunk in the river? Or even get sprinkled?

[bookchapterverse]

1:23:20 Jeremiah wants faith to be "alone" and to not be a work. Here he says that one must "have firm trust." "Have" is the verb/work/action. Jeremiah is still advocating for works. What is faith if you don't have it. I have faith. What am I doing? I'm not "faithing." I'm having. Jeremiah is lost.