Why Molinists Misunderstand Calvinism with Uncle Jimmy

We moved on to responding to arguments made by Tim Stratton and Tyson James, two Molinist proponents, focusing upon Stratton’s reading of a single paragraph from Calvin and the concept of God as “the author of evil.”
#problemofevil #will #freedom #molinism #sovereignty #choices

[carlosrios]

Dr. White offered an excellent rebuttal. I wish others in academia would exercise the same level of scholarly discipline. Well done! Respectfully. Dr. Carlos E. Rios

[shooterdownunder]

How funny that while James White brings a tulip, Tim Stratton brings flowers

[michaelsanders]

2:20 I LOVE THAT VERY SLOW SLOW SCROLLING, FOLLOWED BY THAT LONG PAUSE AND SURPRISE OF JAMES HAHA! toooo funny

[dauntusgaming]

I’m very grateful for your time with this topic Dr. White. I am having a hard time understanding all of the key areas to point out the flaws of Molinism. I foresee that this will be a popular viewpoint coming against reformed theology in the coming years. Maybe another book incoming? 😄

[philblagden]

Suffering is inevitable in both systems. The reformed view at least holds that God has a reason for the suffering that he ordains. The Molinist system like Arminianism has a view of God that makes his hands tied, and has him settling for damage limitation rather than actively working all things for his glory. It is man centred system and offensive to the biblical view of God's wisdom, sovereignty and power.

[donovanwillis]

I could have used all he has addressed over these past two weeks about 3 years ago 🤦‍♂️

I was being led down the WLC road, along with Frank Turek, and the like, but while listening to them / reading their books I was also listening to hundreds of Spurgeons sermons. Along with A.W Pinks book "The Sovereignty of God" and all I can say is that I followed what the Bible taught, and not what I thought it should teach in order for it to match my world view.

Thank you James for these past few talks addressing Molinism and the like. Love you brother, and can't wait to chat when we meet in Glory!

[sparker]

Excellent explanation, thank you. Praise God for His infallible word, of itself perfect. This was very well-articulated, sound teaching..in the power of the Holy Spirit.

[senorchon]

"The secret things belong to the Lord our God,  but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law." Deuteronomy 29-29. This is a standard of us reformed christians and it should be for all christians too. If what the scripture says is not sufficient you are going to start looking elsewhere and come up with things like molinism etc.

[rogerwalters]

Everytime I hear complaint regarding Calvin's teachings, they often misunderstand. Then, when corrected, they usually just walk away bitterly having nothing to say or they still can't understand.
I've met a good handful of men who went through bible college, having studied through the institutions of the Christian faith, who are unable to effectively communicate the doctrines of grace in their own words.

[ProclaimingtheLight]

That Jonathan Edwards quote was spot on!

[ReformedOudeis]

This is yet another very clear example and evidence of the fact that those of the Calvinist prospective have always been sensitive to even the remotest possibility of being accused of making God “the author of sin.”

This is something I have always deeply appreciated about Reformed Theology. It is derived directly from the text of Scripture, and allows Scripture itself to answer these complex and thorny questions.

In this issue as usual, we find Scripture to be totally sufficient for everything we need for a godly life as God Himself made it a point to answer this question for us before anyone ever asked it.

As I was leaving the “Church of Christ, ” I was already seeing this for myself before I had ever read a word from Calvin on this issue. When I saw myself coming to the same conclusions as those dreaded Calvinists then I allowed myself to read directly from Calvin, Augustine, and even Dr. White. As I read their works and finding the voice of Scripture contained within them, I knew I had found my home.

Calvinism simply is the best and most logically formulated explanation of theodicy that I have ever seen, and it is the best because it “speaks where the Bible speaks and is silent where the Bible is silent, ” contrary to the opinions of the Campbellites.

[pinknoise]

Ah, Leighton Flowers foiled again. It’s beginning to feel more and more like a bad episode of scooby doo with Leighton always being found out. 😂
Remember kids, Leighton doesn’t do sound research.

[andrewcollop]

I just do not understand why some think that misquoting and misinterpreting historical pastors and bishops will 1. Honor God, 2. Love the brother they are citing and 3. Gain favor of the faithful over time. It won't.

[stepheneasterbrook]

Kind of sad how they miss the point on God's sovereignty over good and evil.

[zacharybeauford]

That’s laughable. The context didn’t help the slightest. Calvin was a confused babbler

[brando]

Wait… what? From what I heard, by the 11 minute mark, the quote from Leighton was spot on. Nothing you read even contradicted the quote…

[joshhigdon]

I have really enjoyed this whole series defending calvinism over molinism. The "molinists" like to use big words in ways (in my opinion) to sound intelligent, but there is no substance. I guess thats what happens when you chum up to ivy league professors and put on "debate night with WLC" at Cambridge. The consistent molinst, as I've found with this series, is the most consistent arminian. That is to say they are consistent with open theism. There is 0 doubt anymore where Craig and his students stand in regard to their fundamental principles on what sovereignty means. They are without a doubt open theists and therefore should be disregarded as biblical "scholars".

[mikesam]

You don't make it easy James, I'm 54, I came to Christ it's nigh on 10 years now. My life changed radically, it's a long story (and no I didn't have visions or hear voices) but though I have the academic title of Dr. it is in Philology and not Theology and having been a rabid atheist 12 or 15 years ago I've learned just about everything I know from you mostly. I have no Greek, I have Latin and other languages and it's hard sometimes when in my case I don't properly know Church history and so much more but I take what I can get. Mike.

[kevinbritton]

Always starts with a wrong frame of reference. Total depravity states that a just God would punish all wrong doers. Which is all of us, so God is just to punish all. Not until this is understood will any recognize the magnitude of grace. Beelzebub has blinded many.

[reetgoodministries]

A quick summary for anyone who doesn't have the patience to watch this.

1) Dramatically pointing out that the ellipses in Stratton's quote resemble the ellipses in Leighton Flowers' quote, and inferring Stratton is quoting "the bad guy". 

2) Then what feels like 40 minutes straight of reading Calvin, with no real goal, organization, or explanatory coherence.

3) Concluding with: See? Calvin was nuanced. "He made distinctions. He was consistent." Absolutely failing to point out a single distinction, why that distinction is relevant, and how it actually maintains God's holiness.

4) Then quoting Jonathan Edwards, where he places the burden of proof on those claiming Calvinism makes God the author of sin. The burden being to define the meaning of "author of sin". Then concluding "See? Edwards was nuanced. He made distinctions." Again, zero attempt to point out a single distinction, why the distinction is relevant, and how it actually maintains God's holiness.

5) Attacking Molinism: since Molinists "can't tell [you] where they get these true subjunctive conditionals".