Consistent Calvinists DENY God's Foreknowledge & Predestination

FOREKNOWLEDGE & PREDESTINATION ARE NOT COMPATIBLE WITH CALVINISM (OR CLASSICAL THEISM AT LARGE).

In this brief video, Anthony Rogers and Edward Dalcour both affirm that God lacks literal foreknowledge and has never literally predestined anything. This of course seemingly breaks the Calvinist's "Golden Chain of Redemption".

Why would they make such an assertion and hold to contradictory tenets? Because of their commitment to God being atemporal. They claim such terms are meaningless anthropomorphism wherein God condescends to the Biblical authors as they were less intelligent than the Platonists.

What does it mean to be atemporal, you ask? It means to be timeless... not merely eternal and without beginning or end, but lacking activity, sequence, absent any temporal location, duration or extension... static, frozen and immobile... completely unrelated to temporal events and the created realm. This concept arises not from Scripture, but Platonist philosophy. Rather, Scripture speaks of God in terms of endless time, or ages of ages, and affirms His sequential operations as it directly connects such things with Him being the Living God.

#foreknowledge #predestination #Calvinism

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FAIR USE NOTICE

[simplearthling]

Yo... this is so sick (as in awesome!) Keep exposing the darkness. You have the Light brother, Keep shining! We are with you!

[nathanhellrung]

Calvinism, where words mean the complete opposite of what most people commonly know them to mean. Anything that disagrees with their theology is just “anthropomorphism”

[JohnQPublic]

Reformed Theology *contradiction* #1, 576

[trebmaster]

Notice whenever he or they say "scripture is clear", they just say the narrative and not a verse. 2:11

[DamonNomad]

My my my! Forcing Aug-Gnostics to come face to face with the absurd implications of what they believe is a great way to end up being called the monster under Augustine's bed, AKA a (semi) Pelagian!

[TatteredBiblePodcast]

"Would that make him like Baal or are these examples of anthropomorphic language?" Anthony Rogers

Anthropomorphic Language never conveys the opposite of what the language used actually says.
For example when the Bible says God has eyes we know God, being an incorporeal being, doesn't have eyes. God having eyes is an Anthropomorphism. But Eyes as an Anthropomorphism don't mean the opposite of eyes as a physical body part. You couldn't look at the phrase "God has eyes" and say "God doesn't see anything". Rather sight is exactly what is being communicated by God having eyes.
Similarly if we interpret God "Foreknowing" and "Predestining" people as Anthropomorphism then whatever is being expressed does not and cannot mean the opposite of the language used.

What I would suggest to Anthony is that if his view of God is in conflict with a straightforward reading of scripture so much so that he has to hide behind the words "Metaphor" and "Anthropomorphism" and claim that those words communicate the opposite of what they clearly say that maybe, just maybe, it is his understanding that is wrong and not the straight forward reading of the text.

[kevinwells]

I also see ‘arguments from jargon’ used a lot in calvinist circles. The problem is that, in jargon-heavy domains, idiosyncratic meanings for common terms, and especially terms unique to the field, can encapsulate and obfuscate incoherence for those outside as well as inside the domain.

“I don’t see how God can be infinitely loving and still have created most people as reprobate”

“Oh that’s bc of God’s [jargon word].”

“You can’t just hide incoherence within a technical term. Explain in everyday words with their everyday meanings how this makes sense.”

“well, you see… if we take “love” to mean what it normally means, then I see your point. But for God to be all-loving means…”

“let me stop you there…”

[Andrew_the_Worthy_Shield]

I saw the definition(s) brought up, and a thought popped up: If we are talking about foreknowledge as knowledge of an event before it happens, anyone could have foreknowledge with enough information. If you knew someone would do something that is good, you might prepare something for them. For example if you knew your kid would do their chores and were getting ready to do more than you asked of them, you might preplan on rewarding them with three scoops of their favorite ice cream instead of just one. In that thought, you could possibly say predestine and preplan are similar in intent with the only difference being if, in the example, you say to your kid a few days early that they would get more ice cream if they did extra chores without you asking them versus if you decided this without telling them. If that is how words work based on the lexicon, is it really that far-fetched to believe what is being said? If it's that simple to think of the application of the words, could it be not so outlandish to think it could on some level be similar with God because He created language and the people who speak those languages?

Nah, I must have drunk too much heresy flavored kool-aid.

[gintas]

Alternative explanation of the usage of that word was brought to light by dr Flowers - “foreknew” meaning - those He knew before - i.e. old testament saints, passage in romans 8 referring to past events, not a knowledge beforehand.

The same word used in that sense can be found in

Romans 11:2
God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew.

Maybe it is a viable explanation.

[omnitheus]

Priceless. Worst part of all this is these guys are too stupid to see your point. Surprised if any of those three would make manager at Wendy's...

[editsofawesomeness]

As Craig says, God is outside of time without creation, but _in_ time with creation.

[nphoenixcrimefighter]

Matt. 14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

If God won’t forgive your sins, because someone won’t forgive others…

Doesn’t this imply that one’s salvation can be altered or interfered via an if-then situation?

[kevinwells]

Foreknowledge is perspectival. A time traveler from the future would seem to have foreknowledge of events, but for him this would be knowledge of the past— his past, our future. Think “Groundhog Day”.

That being said, a common mistake of many is to take Paul’s individual statements as totalizing and purely and independently didactic. Paul was an expert rhetorician and nearly every sentence he wrote was carefully crafted to move forward the argument he was making in each particular section of each work he wrote. Also, a careful reading of Ephesians and Romans will reveal that Paul asserted the predestination of Jewish evangelists to the gentiles for that particular work. One of his main rhetorical concerns in both of these works is to restore the waning social capital of Jewish believers in the now mainly gentile churches. we often miss this bc we fail to take Paul’s cues as to which group he means by “we”, “us”, “you (pl)” and “them”, esp. in ephesians 1-3. Iow, (to put it too simply) Paul was not writing a systematic theology, he was trying to get gentile churches to behave.

[IronSharpensIron]

I was just in a discussion with a friend (calvinist) tonight. Seems like they always dodge when you corner them with Bible knowledge 🤷🏼‍♂️

[Soonerguy]

When they start laughing immediately it’s either a totally absurd argument or……a pretty darn good one. It’s definitely not the former

[TatteredBiblePodcast]

"Bock, Bock, Bock, "Anthony Rogers.🐔

[lynnewilley]

If only I knew what atemporalality and anthropomorphism even meant!

[JohnQPublic]

My neighbors Chihuahua knows more about logic and Reformed Theology than the 9 brain cells in this video.

[DiscipleShaynePlaylist]

Predestined to believe 😊
Jesus is Alive!!!
✝️💕🏃💨🌎

[Tigerex]

Cool thanks truth is always refreshing.