Leighton Flowers Needs to Keep Reading, Ironically.

In this video I point out the irony of Leighton making a video telling Calvinists to "keep reading" while he stops a single verse shy of destroying his own point. His entire video is linked below.

[yvonnedoulos]

Yes, Pastor Chris. Jesus’s prayer is for all who God gives to Jesus. I suspect Leighton would agree.

But who is given? Those whom God chose before the foundation of the earth?

No. It does not say that.

It says, “…those also who believe in Me (Jesus) through their (Apostles’) word.”

If the Apostle John wanted to teach the Calvinistic perspective of unconditional election, wouldn’t this have been a good place to say so? But that is not what is taught here.

[TheRefinnej]

Thanks for exposing Leighton and his agenda against predestination. The truth continues to be revealed! 🎉

[billmartinn]

Quite honestly pastor, no matter what verse Leighton shares with you, as a calvanist, you will misinterpret it. Jesus died for the sins of the entire World. World means exactly what it says. Those who receive Christ, John 1:12, are saved. Those who do not believe in Him are lost, John 3:18. It's that simple pastor.

[smartsimplefit]

1 John 2:2 makes Limited Atonement impossible.

[vikodavid]

Sorry but, i think leighton read the bible correctly. Just saying. Not trying to be rude or pick sides. God bless you.

[whatsaiththescriptures]

Leighton has EARS to hear, but HEARS not.

[AtomicApolo]

16:07 Every true Christian can be assured of being included in this prayer.

[VeryBasicBible]

This is very helpful. A learned Calvinist who is cordial and thoughtful, critiquing our perspective. Thank you for doing this. Iron Sharpening Iron is hopefully what’s happening in these dialogues 🙂

[TimBarr-ep]

My problem with Calvinism is that it makes God responsible for the Evils in our World instead of Prideful People willfully rejecting God's Provision in Christ.

[Jebron_G]

Verse 20 " so that" makes it evangelistic. May they also be in us so that the world may be believe.

May belive but they also may not believe...that's not every knee shall bow. The text is very clear Leighton is spot on.

[MissBear]

Brother, you say John never uses the word " world" but in a negative sense.
John 3:16 How is that a negative sense?

[Jebron_G]

Verse 20 says that the world may believe..
Believe is faith. It's not saying so that the world may be judged.

What on earth are you talking about ? Shocking commnetary!

[bilboswagginz]

Where do those who come to faith reside until they come to faith? Answer: the world. The world is full of people who will come to faith. Jesus even prays they “may” come to faith. That doesn’t sound so certain. Why would He pray for it if it’s bound to happen? Why would anyone pray for anything to happen if it’s all predetermined?

Also, why would you set up a straw man about God’s omniscience for Leighton? Why would you ask if God needs to “look through the corridors of time” to see who will believe? Don’t you believe God is transcendent and omniscient? God cannot learn anything or find anything out. That point confused me.

Thanks!

[WoodrowKlassen]

You are asking us to just swallow your claim of the last part being eschatological as well as world being a negative connotation. Just saying something doesn’t make it so.

Could there not be a category of believers that come to believe that Jesus came from the Father due to the oneness of the believers, just as Jesus prayed?

Your saying all become believers because of the apostles words, but Jesus’ prayer for the world is that they would believe as a result of the oneness of those who have come to believe because of the apostles words.

[Guhjy]

I noticed one major difference between calvinism and other points of view. The former believes in almighty God and latter believes in almighty man.

[Jebron_G]

Verse 25 these indicates he is talking about the apostles in the present time...these know me...he is not talking about future believers cause he is speaking in present tense. These already know me! I made known to them( past tense) He clearly is talking about apostles

Jesus is not saying these WILL know me!!

[AtomicApolo]

28:30 Wow. Leighton completely ignores the rest of the passage on purpose in order to make his argument. Another example that Leighton is a twister of Scripture.

[branch]

Hi Pastor Chris. Thanks for doing this video. I would agree with you that world is either negative or neutral in John. However, where neutral (such as John 3:16) is it not also evangelical? I always keep an open mind about eschatology. But do you have any commentaries that you know of that holds your eschatological view here? I have never heard that before.

Granted, that just because there may not be any commentary that agrees with your eschatological take in John 17 (unless you know of one), may not mean it cannot be the case. As for verse 24, based on the context, the simplest obvious connection could be (based on nearest context principles) that those whom Christ was speaking of in 22-23, might also be the same as 24. The difference? In 22-23 Jesus is praying for the disciples glory in Him and unity on earth. Then, (as high priest) He prays for them (the same) to be with Him thereafter.

Now we might think it strange that Christ would pray for a need for those whom the Father gave Him to also be present with Him in paradise, heaven, eternal state. This would seem naturally already provided by the Father as a natural outflow of those who love Him on earth. This prayer is known as the "high priestly prayer." So in that context, Christ praying that those that know Him on earth also be included in heaven after (as high priest and divinity--having been with the Father before the foundation of the world highlighting this fact) is Christ literally praying that those who love Him on earth may also be with Him in heaven...a priestly prayer of Christ.

If the context is primarily governed by this priestly official prayer of Christ, then using this context to expand into end times or broaden theological implications as they may relate to future believers may not be as central to the context of the significance "at that time even" and importance of Christ fulfilling a high priest prayer. Understood in this context, it would make sense that verses 23 and 24 are the same group. Because on one hand, as high priest, Christ is thanking the father for the disciples earthly blessing as well as high priest (and deity) asking the Father to also bless them in eternal glory. Because of Christs initial pronounced work of what He came to do (as focus), and not so much that Christ came to fulfill our theological notions, the simplest direct reading would have 23 and 24 as the same group under the context of His ministry as the focus MORE than secondary potential soteriological theological derivatives we might pull from such statements.

In this view, verses 25 and 26 would also be the disciples which fits perfectly in a closing bracket. "These have known that you have sent me, " would BEST be those that knew that practically at that very time. And as contextually convincing as verse 25 points soundly to those who would witness Him physically at that time, would provide a sufficient parameter suggesting that if we have read this far (verse 25) it would include everything in context along the way also before it.

I hope that makes sense in a way. Blessing's brother. And thanks for the encouragement to look at these passages a bit more even if we might see differently.

[kevinelvington]

great video. this is exactly what Leighton does all the time. He talks alot and deceives alot. its just not ignorance, He knows what he is doing.

[daleb.]

Good exegetical work. I don't believe that Leighton is deliberately deceptive. I believe he is sincere in what he believes but he has a template in his mind and he has to eisegete to get scripture to fit it.