Response to Criticism of my Case Against the Papacy

Several weeks ago I offered a case against the papacy on Cameron Bertuzzi's Capturing Christianity. There have 8 or 9 different response videos to it from Roman Catholics. In this video I articulate 7 concerns about arguments for the papacy in these responses videos.

Truth Unites is a mixture of apologetics and theology, with an irenic focus.

Gavin Ortlund (PhD, Fuller Theological Seminary) serves as senior pastor of First Baptist Church of Ojai.

SUPPORT:

FOLLOW:

MY BOOKS:

PODCAST:

00:00 - Introduction
02:41 - 1. Eisegesis
14:37 - 2. Misframing
22:00 - 3. Shifting the Burden of Proof
32:18 - 4. Arguments From Silence?
34:54 - 5. Typological Arguments for the Papacy
41:32 - 6. Are Accretions Plausible?
51:02 - 7. Does the Papacy Lead to Unity?
57:40 - Final Thoughts

[lesalbjerg]

I am a Protestant. We do have a supreme infallible head of the Church. His name is Jesus Christ. (Hebrews 8:1, 2)

[marcocollazo]

This video was ridiculously helpful for me. I subscribe to Capturing Christianity and have been following his consideration of Catholicism. A lot of the arguments were making sense and causing me to question my convictions as a Protestant and my affirmation of Sola Scriptura, but as you outlined some of the arguments against the papacy in this video as well as a defense for Sola Scriptura in another, I feel more confident in my stance as a Protestant. I go to Biola university as a Bible major, this Chanel and all of my classes have really grown a passion in me to take a deep dive into church history and track the theological developments of the church over the centuries. Thanks, Dr. Ortlund! You’re awesome!

[ApostolicStorm]

Isn’t it just like the Devil, who is an expert manipulator of the Word, to convince many within and outside of the Church to exalt one Apostle above all of his co-equals? And not only that, but to bow the knee to all subsequent Popes as a diversion from direct faith in Jesus Christ? There is absolutely no Biblical basis for the Papacy. If Jesus giving the keys to Peter was a promotional appointment to the Papacy, then Peter would have immediately began to serve as the ‘Director’ of the Apostles from that point onwards. Remember when Samuel the Prophet anointed Saul as Israel’s first King, which began the reign of the Davidic Dynasty with their next King? Well, as soon as Saul was anointed to Kingship, he immediately ascended the throne. Peter never assumed any position above Apostleship. Not a hint of Peter being the “Pope” is evidenced throughout any of the Gospels or even later in Acts. Simply because there is no Papacy. In Matthew 16, Jesus blessed Peter with personal Apostolic authority, not Papal infallibility. There is only one “Pope” who is our Heavenly Father—Jesus Christ, the Good Shepherd.

[MrWoaaaaah]

It must be exhausting keeping up with all these response videos. Respect. From a catholic.

[marcuswilliams]

Dr. Ortlund: "In a twenty minute video..."

Everyone: Only 20 min?

Everyone: 39 minutes still to go? Phew.

[TheOtherPaul]

Another excellent response doc. You bring together all the evidence and assess them in sum, not just piecemeal, which makes the argument much more powerful.

[keelyemerine-mix]

What matters most, brother, is that you're as kind and gentle as you are smart and well-read. We don't see that enough these days.

[taylorbarrett]

I don't watch all of these back and forth videos on all these various topics (my interest is fairly narrow: justification), but I appreciate the time and effort you put in to respond to them all. Praying your continued engagement will lead to fruit in the Spirit, whether with ultimate entrance into the Church, or otherwise. May the Lord bless your continued zeal for serving Him by speaking about these issues.

[flavadave]

This is my issue with almost everything the Catholic Church postulates as doctrine. It’s all just inference. And it’s hilarious when it’s explained, because the answer is never an answer at all. great job getting into the details with such care.

[josuekax]

Thanks for your video, I have been thinking to convert to catholicism but doutbs come to me concerning the papacy and marian dogmas as well. Also i cant deny the graces that God has put in other christians traditions. Your videos always encourge me to seek the truth. May God keep using and blessing you and your family. Greeting from Chile South America!

[danib]

So I grew up Christian (non catholic) but was never into church stopped going to church once my family moved to a different town when I was in 7th grade. I don’t even know what kind of church I went to because I didn’t know about all these denominations all I know was I learned the gospel. But when I became an adult I actually read the Bible and truly excepted Jesus. Now today I am trying to lean more history about the church and the catholic side is odd..im trying to understand I try listening to catholic apologists and….its so off to me. When I listen to non catholic Christians apologists aka “ protestant” it clicks so well with what I know from the Bible . Oh and also it feels so close to Christ when I hear Catholics it’s like… church, Mary, saints and then Jesus…. still trying to understand but … it’s not sitting well with me

[patrickmccarthy]

It was for me that Jesus died, and that's enough for me. ✝️

[bairfreedom]

I noticed that the late doctrine that the RCC clings to is read INTO the text. You can't get what they believe FROM the text. Thank you for this video.

[pappywinky]

I really admire your kindness, patience and how open and respectful you are in presenting your arguments. So many videos I see are snarky and rude. But yours are always gentle and loving, the true heart of Christ. I have had a hard time trying to discuss subjects such as these with people, including my wife hahaha. My in-laws are orthodox and discussing things with them have taught me how to respond with kindness, patience and compassion. I'm still learning but examples such as you are really encouraging to me.

[LaymanBibleLounge]

Gotta get my popcorn for this one. 1 hour of Ortlund = pure entertainment

[darthbigred]

The fact the office existed before Christianity should always be cause for concern. You can convert Romans but their weird culture who mixed religions already would just do that to themselves seems self evident. There's even statues of Augustus as the Pontifex Maximus

Honestly I don't know why you argue with them anyways their laymen defenders are weak at best and always want to talk merely theology than the politics of the era when many of these more heretical and heavy handed decisions by the various Popes are made. That's why they lean so heavily on personal attacks of Martin Luther, Henry the VIII, Jan Hus, and Peter Waldo. Luther didn't sequester himself afterall and Henry the VIII not leaving England to fall into the hands of France or Spain is completely understandable even if his sex life wasn't. Nor can I say I don't understand why the Byzantines split with Rome over their continual desire to be autonomous of the Byzantine Emperor being a check on their authority. Remember they hold the lower seat of power under Constantine as well and have never refuted that. The treatment of the Bohemians by Sigismund and his betrayal of Jan Hus shuttling him off to a kangaroo court is what lead to the Hussite rebellion as well. They always expect you to just think it all starts with the 95 thesis and Martin Luther is merely a ego maniac. But for the infallible Medieval UN they failed miserably at keeping the peace much less not favoring certain nations over other leading to them all but feeling abused and alienated which lead to them leaving. They brush that all aside like we should ignore it along with who they are now. I would never join any faith with that current Pope as head much less any faith that allows a SJW like Friar Casey in. He is a liberal heretic and a son of Satan in a frock.

Also they're so pathetic they still want to fight us because their Woke Pope uses as an excuse for everything. Why is the world bad? Protestants! Why did Father Murphy diddle your son? Well he was raised protestant! Why are the cardinals and Pope so liberal they may as well be atheists LGBTQs activists? Because they are secret masonic protestants! It can never ever be anything they did in history. 3 popes at once, nah! Making Germany submit over and over for Italy? Nah! Favoring France over England? Nah! Letting Constantinople fall? Nah! Staying silent about Hitler and Mussolini? Nah Encouraging slavery in the New World? Nah! Ratlines for Nazis? Nah!

Not worth the fight and when Woke Pope flips to pro gay about 50-75% of them are going to split off with SPX all while acting like that's not protestant. I would stop arguing with them focus on gays, SJWs, atheists, and the LGBTQ crowd maybe they'll get the hint. Also we can all cruelly but accurately point out our countries greatness was in spite of them and it's downfall began with their mass immigration and their voting the way they have for decades! It wasn't protestants who brought major organized crime to the US afterall.

[child_of_weakness]

I agree with this a lot, I'm in a Cameron situation where I'm debating between orthodoxy catholicism and high church protestantism but I am seeing how catholic apologists try to prove too much with little details. Same thing with Isaiah 22, typology should not be used to prove a doctrine.

[brianetheredge]

Excellent presentation of the counter-arguments, sir, and you could have easily gone another hour based on my experience dialoguing with Catholics on YT.

I'm thinking about starting a channel here on YT to help people looking to move out of the RCC, since my experience with the same was fraught/confusing/difficult. This video definitely highlights a need for this kind of resource...got you/your ministry in my prayers, Gavin.

[pdrsan]

This is not related to the papacy but I’m really hoping Dr.Ortlund makes a video on kierkegaard. He seems like such a fascinating mind that Christian’s don’t engage with enough

[MRBosnoyan]

Thank you for the new vocabulary word (Eisegesis). You hit the nail on the head.

Thanks again Gavin! Always a pleasure and a blessing hearing from you. Always edifying! Happy Easter and God Bless you and your family!