Why the Cirrus SR22 Will Fail

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Creating the best airplane one of the most daunting tasks engineers face, because it is necessary to strike a balance between opportunities and the price that you will have to pay for them. Since the SR22 was introduced, about 7000 of the four-place singles has been built, and it's already the world’s most popular airplane. But the title of No. 1 comes with serious obligations, and serious continuous innovation is one. A lot of new features have been added to the SR22, but how much has innovation changed the plane since its introduction?
#Cirrus #CirrusSR22

Timecode
0:00 - Overview
0:51 - Design History
3:00 - Why it will fail
6:51 - Thielert Centurion 4.0
7:34 - Continental IO-550 vs Thielert Centurion 4.0
8:58 - Nord VPN
10:13 - Continental IO-550 vs Theirlart centurion 4.0 (Continuation)
12:08 - Conclusion
13:21 - Recommendation
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[Dwaynesaviation]

WHY I MADE THIS VIDEO, also mentioned in the video.
In 2022, Cirrus had already been the industry leader for two decades, building most of the world’s GA products. Since the SR22 was introduced, about 7000 of them has been built. But the title of No. 1 comes with serious obligations and serious continuous innovation is one.

[tinobooysen]

20 years ago, every soapbox expert like this doomed the Cirrus to fail, due to being all composite, and having no indication of ‘life limit’…. And here we are, 20 years later, this aircraft outsells all other certified manufacturers 4-1, and in 20 years from now, whatever is left of general aviation, Cirrus will still be the benchmark

[NikosWings]

There are so many inconsistencies and wrong assumptions on this video it’s amazing to me. The author owes to rethink their approach in accuracy and possibly ask one or two cirrus pilots as to why we fly Cirrus and soon you’ll realize how simple it is to choose the SR22 over any other piston. I won’t waste my time explaining why. I will just make sure I don’t see another video by this content provider.

[ThisIzzNotATest]

The unique combination of subject matter, script, and slick(ish) content in this video brings to mind the word "incongruous".

[johngilbert]

7k planes in 20 years... that's what was being produced per year in the 70's in GA. Can't buy a certified plane for under $500k now, let alone a Cirrus.

[cturdo]

Engine and fuel technology lag is hurting all segments of piston aviation. Wrap any airframe around these overpriced, conventional piston engines and you still have limited efficiency.

[chaddoan]

Your analysis of the motor in the SR22 is correct but the plane will not fail. The culture in civilian aviation and sales momentum will make that a plane a success. The number of people I've heard make arguments about how dual mechanical magnetos designed in the 1930s are better than modern ignition systems used in everything else short of cheap lawn mowers amazes me.

Even in the experimental space where they can use anything they want I keep seeing open loop engine management systems that were obsolete in the automotive world 30 years ago. The people who set these systems up use them because they think the pilot should be monitoring manifold pressure, egts, and air to fuel ratio and making adjustments instead of allowing a closed loop system to monitor, adjust and notify the pilot of a potential problem before it becomes fatal.

[pokerpariah]

You make good points which really helped me choose which plane to purchase, the Cirrus Vision Jet G2+.

[philgooddr.]

To me and having work with diesel, gas multi fuel and Hfo engines a 1/3 of century, the best futur of GA and light helicopters power plant (and cab pressure) is turbotech TP-R90 type small jet engine derivative turbo prop system with behind the combustion chamber, a large heat exchanger and strait back exhaust (for a take off PC option).
This technology using new capillary tubes heat exchange is particularly adapted to small turbine power plant and combines four advantages:
1: lower weight, heat exchanger is not a drastic weight increaser, largely offset by less fuel burned.
2:efficiency the thermal efficiency is already as good as Otto turbo cycle and is already a good 40% improvement over other turbines with more improvement later…the lighter weight and lower drag of a smaller front area with the turbo prop better altitude performance can boost cruising speed and range further up. These results are logical: instead of using fuel exclusively to heat up and expand the compressed air, such a system uses first the exhaust gas heat to heat up compressed air further and then only a make up heat with less kerosine amount and combustion to reach similar temperatures to the turbine inlet…And to do so, small is beautiful : a tube two time smaller is 4 time lighter and 8 time stronger and thermal stresses increases with the size of components so that the smaller, the better.
3:use of economical A1 jet fuel, no fuel system lube issues like on diesels, common rail hp pump failure, etc..
4: and up 3000 hours tbo initially.

But in five, we have ONE Big Disadvantage : COST… which can go down with volume, recycling of hot metal component materials and use of modern ceramics, maybe a single pitch monobloc propeller, innovative reduction gear box, laminar design, etc.

[sebastientoussaint]

I Agree, it's time for them to use a different engine. But I'm sure they are already testing this, but probably haven't felt confortable for a big change and little gain.

[davem]

The diesel engine weighs 300 lbs more to burn 18 lbs less fuel.

The cost of designing, producing and supporting a general aviation engine is not justified by the small market and enormous liability.

[AdventureNa]

I worked on the Gray Eagle. We had the Thielert 2.0 four cylinder turbo diesel.

Biggest POS. TBO was 1800 hours and the engines rarely made it there.

The Army's next UAV has a turbo prop.

[donbeissel]

My RANS s6s has a fuel injected engine with an ECU. I only have a throttle. No mixture. Prop is only adjustable on the ground, but it’s a bush plane and set for climb instead of cruise to get out of places.

[Captain]

To make some corrections to your statements. The Thielert Company doesn't exist anymore. It is now the AUSTRO Engine Company. They don't use the original Thielert V8 diesel engines. They use turbocharged 4 cylinder Mercedes Benz engines which are considerably lighter and smaller and also powered with Jet-Fuel A1. All Diamonds except the 50RG are using these engines in different variants. They could surely fit into Cirrus SR22 BUT Austro Engine is selling these engines solely to Diamond Aircraft as a unique stand-alone feature. The only other solution would be the new Continental CD300 Twin Turbocharged engine. Also FADEC controlled, Single Lever Jet-A1 engine. But this engine is definitely to big and powerful for the SR22. Also "Behind the scenes", mechanics are telling you that this engine is a nightmare if it comes to maintenance costs. So, besides these above mentioned alternatives, there are no FADEC-controlled, Diesel or Jet-Fuel powered engines on the market so far.

[DriveByShouting]

I considered getting into a SR22-T, but I just didn’t like the Aircraft. Side stick, Composite and the one I was considering I thought was low time, until being told about the IO-550 plant and the 800hr recommended overhaul. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with them, the opposite actually. Innovative. The Modern version of the original 1947 Model 35 V-Tail Bonanza.

I narrowed it down between a Cessna 206 Turbo Stationair and a Piper 6XT.

Went with the Piper 6XT. Everything I wanted in a single engine piston.

[xorbital]

Agree with your main point re: the legacy engine. I have no doubt that a FADEC engine is high on the to-do list for Cirrus when the time is right. Diamond offers no ballistic parachute system, and the “electronic parachute” of the DA-40s is cold comfort for a family of 4 stuck in IMC or if the pilot is disoriented or incapacitated for whatever reason. I contacted Diamond to ask them why not put a full-frame parachute in, they basically said, our aircraft are the safest and don’t need one (nice). Rotax makes amazing FADEC engines and Sling Aircraft uses them brilliantly, so does Pipistrel in their SW range; both of these manufacturers offer parachutes too. Hopefully, Rotax will bring out a more powerful variant after its FADEC turbo 915iS, to push power to well beyond the current max of just over 140HP.

[dieselyeti]

I've done a lot of research on this, and the more cost-effective solution imho is convert the IO-550N to liquid cooling. This would eliminate the 100 octane requirement because the resulting 220F cylinder head temps would eliminate the need for high octane for detonation resistance. Such an engine would run on 89 or 91 octane pump gas (w/o ethanol) and using unleaded fuel means the oil change interval would go from 50 to 100 hours and plugs and exhaust valves won't get gummed up with carbon. Additionally, liquid cooled cylinders should be good for two complete TBO cycles before replacement. Operationally, there's no shock cooling a l/c engine, and the higher compression allowed by lower CHTs means better SFC from the lower fuel burn.

[backcountyrpilot]

I had a 2007 Bonanza G36 with a Continental IO550. It burned 7 exhaust valves being flown by 3 owners in 800 hours.
My Maule MT-7-235 had a Lycoming IO540 that gave me zero trouble in 750 hours. It seems virtually all Continental 550’s need a top end overhaul by 800 hrs. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Also, starting the Continental 550 when hot was always a nail-biting event. The Lycoming started without issue hot or cold.

[pushingthrottles]

You know what, I agree. The engine is my problem with this aircraft too. That and the fixed gear. At this price point, might as well fly the SF50 Vision Jet.

[Giggidygiggidy]

I think the two biggest mistakes or missed opportunities Cirrus has made is; not making a better jet and not offering turbo prop to compete with Daher tbm960 bit I wouldn't say they're failing