Undermining The Incarnation of Christ: Total Depravity (Idol Killer Debate)

Review of @IdolKiller 's opening statement, critical point number 3, which is that Total Depravity undermines both the incarnation of Christ and His redemptive work. As we will see in this video, this could not be further from the truth. #bible #debate #theology

The claim is that if Total Depravity is true, and all of mankind is born with a sinful nature, that would entail that Christ is born with a sinful nature. This is not the case, because Christ is the second Adam. Being born of a virgin, Jesus Christ has no father other than God, and has nothing to do with Adam's sin, through which Romans chapter 5 claims that sin, death, and judgment resulting in condemnation came to all men. Jerimiah says that the heart is wicked and deceitful above all things, and if you do not believe that, then your heart has deceived you into thinking it is good.

It could not have been said of Christ that his heart was wicked and deceitful. Jesus says that the flesh profits nothing, but this could not be true of the flesh of Jesus or else the sacrifice of his flesh would not profit salvation. This is not just reformed theology or Calvinism, it's what the Bible objectively teaches.

The debate can be found here:

Videos you might find useful:

The Most Hated Christian Doctrine

Total Depravity (Part 1): What is Reformed Theology? with R.C. Sproul

Total Depravity (Part 2): What is Reformed Theology? with R.C. Sproul

Steven Lawson: Total Depravity

Is Total Depravity True? (Part 2)

Calvinism Sermon: Total Depravity (Part 2 in series)

[sevencrickets]

There are many ways that Christ was not like us. Did Jesus need to be born again? The obvious answer is no. But every single one of us must be born again if we have any hope of salvation. I will say that he is consistent in his position in that later in the debate he asserted that there could have been many who lived and died and never sinned. He outright claims that in the debate. I guess for him, all doesn't mean all in Romans 3:23. Also, I have mentioned this before, but is the virgin birth just a dope origin story for him? Seems awfully convenient to just throw out the idea that he was born of the holy spirit specifically because this makes him not under the federal headship of Adam.

[bryanpratt]

Excellent video Rogue!
A verse I thought of that may apply is:
Romans 8:3 (KJV)
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Key word there is “likeness” so Jesus did not partake of sinfulness but in the likeness of sinful flesh.

[andrewmiles]

Amazing how he talks so confidently.

Hebrews 4:15 BSB
[15] "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who was tempted in every way that we are, yet was without sin"

How would he twist this I wonder?

[lynettecardinale]

Great video… O’ Wretched man !! as Paul declared… saved only by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ … the redemption becoming a new creature with a new heart. Ez 36…. No other way !!!

[BibleStudywithVernon]

It’s interesting that you’re pointing this out. A few months ago on TGT I asked was he Nestorian, because he doesn’t seem to understand the hypostatic union.

[silversilk]

Rogue! Your videos are good and the weight of the words carry themselves. The video will be just as impactful with fewer B-roll transitions. The transitions are still great (and I liked the flip to the definition of slavery at 5:12 was smooth!!), I’m just saying: Spectacle wears off, and I think the target audience of those interested in Christian theology, it works with the videos being any length, any editing style. Just my own feedback is that I don’t think you needed as much as you added. It’s just a pinch of salt makes the food tastier, one could say. I know you’ll make the choice that fits for you but that you’ll also take feedback into consideration: I think it’s a bit more fun to be able to pause on the definition, pause on the family tree, pause on visual that you’re talking about to make more impact. I know you already put the thought into choosing the visuals, so, choosing those visuals to sync with your points fits well.

Also, you don’t need a fancy intro, cutting straight to the discussion and action is fun for me. (If you like your intro keep it, but I personally don’t think it’s so important to introduce your anonymous self. The work you do here, you know that it’s for God’s glory, not to uphold a branding, not to make a name. I already know you’re keeping that in mind because it was your reason for starting the channel.)

I’m still enjoying things, but I’m giving some feedback to soften the edges: The intro isn’t so important, and a little title card and the shortest of tunes is more than sufficient because over the span of the many videos I want to enjoy, the tune will get very stuck in my head (haha).

Also I’m an iconoclast and glad for it. You don’t need to pick out stock footage depictions of nativity to get the point across. If anything, a good perhaps gothic script/typeface/font (or any style you want) and the passage references with the helpful heading “For you to read:” or the like… that would strengthen what you’re doing by encouraging others to get into their bibles, the primary source (rather than secondary or tertiary) of truth, even divine truth.
Letting the definition sit up on the screen, to you it would feel like too long because you spend longer than us staring at and thinking about the video.
But for us, it helps the viewing experience and I think this feedback will serve you faithfully - so I pray!

[AtomicApolo]

Warren seems to keep going back to Adam but soon forgets about Cain and Abel when it comes to Total Depravity.

[CBALLEN]

Any religion that doesn't believe the Doctrines of God, as reflected in the TULIP, is simply a religion of WISHFUL THINKING. 😊

[jacobketler]

We would all agree that Christ was not totally depraved and did not have a sin nature. The problem is that if total depravity is true, then Paul is wrong in Hebrews when he says “like his brothers in every respect” and especially “in every respect has been tempted as we are”.

When doctrine contradicts scripture we should question the doctrine.

Hebrews 2:14 (ESV) Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,

Hebrews 2:17-18 (ESV) 17 Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

Hebrews 4:15 (ESV) For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.

[allanjstark]

So sick watching people discussing over fairytales

[AshtonMohr]

are you Presbyterian or Reformed Baptist?

[Brenda-qoko]

Good video. But I want to challenge your theological explanation for why God was Jesus's Father and it's implications in regard to his sinless human nature. People aren't conceived with a sin nature only because they have a sinful human father.Your children don't have a sin nature only because you contributed to his conception. Their mother who has a sin nature also contributed. Even though Adam is natural man's federal head, the curse of the sin nature was applied to both Adam and Eve. ALL of mankind i.e. men and women have sinful flesh. Since the Father was the one who begot the divine Son then in order for the divine son to take on a human nature it had to be through the woman who bore him. After all, only women can bear children. When God made Adam He created a sinless human being. Adam only took on a sin nature after he disobeyed God in the garden. So it was possible for God to create another sinless human nature, even if he was born through a sinful woman. So the reason Jesus has a sinless human nature is not because God is his Father and not a human male.