An Incarnational Model of the Eucharist? With Dr. James Arcadi

In this video I discuss whether the mode of Christ's presence in the Eucharist can be compared to the nature of the incarnation.

Gavin Ortlund (PhD, Fuller Theological Seminary) is President of Truth Unites and Theologian-in-Residence at Immanuel Church.

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00:00 - Introduction
01:31 - Impoverished Views of the Eucharist
03:51 - Differences Construals of "Real Presence"
08:00 - Views of Different Christian Traditions
10:12 - Metaphysics vs. Mystery
13:16 - What is the Incarnational Model?
17:29 - Overly Carnal Views of the Eucharist
21:39 - Transubstantiation and Its Alternatives
25:32 - Can a Dog Feast On Christ?
29:27 - Part of Christ or the Whole Christ?
32:06 - Where Does a Valid Eucharist Occur?
36:30 - Apostolic Succession and the Eucharist
37:22 - Understanding vs. Experience
40:20 - Reforming Eucharistic Practice
43:44 - Protestant Concerns of Exclusivity
46:12 - What About John 6?
50:13 - Further Reading

[johnnygnash]

In the wise lyrics of Iris Dement, "I think I'll just let the mystery be." Been an Anglican for most of my life now, and my head has yet to explode from taking that conception honestly and solemnly to the altar. I hope the efficacy of the offering isn't dependent on my exhaustively understanding it.

[ProfYaffle]

My big confession is that i struggle with the whole thing of eating a bit of bread and drinking wine. With an "ordinary" view, what difference does it make?
But studying the Jewish feasts has opened my eyes to the importance of rememberance.
Without Passover and first fruits and Pentecost we would miss the care that God put into planning and executing salvation through Jesus. The expectation and the perfect timing.

[itscoleperkins]

This was so encouraging. I got such a passion in my chest as they you were discussing both the unity with Christ and unity with one another that we experience through the table. I love too see the trend of low church groups undergoing what seems to be a eucharistic revival.

[Mate_Christ]

Gavin im so tankful for your Work it helped me so much dealing with ecclesial anxiety God bless you

[sebastienberger]

And Gavin makes me buy another book. Both me and my wife thank you, but not with the same emotion 😂.

[tategarrett]

Thank you so much for continuing to draw people's attention to the richness of our Christian, and specifically Protestant, tradition!

[marksmale]

What about Christians who cannot read or write, or are so preoccupied with surviving in hostile social and/or physical environments that they don't have the luxury of indulging in philosophical and theological debates like this? These sort of debates were impossible for most Christian lay people to participate in for most of Christian history.

[Convexhull]

This was very refreshing to watch. I have been thinking about this topic a lot.

[jaikelr]

Hey Gavin, please consider to invite Dr. Brant Pitre to talk about the Eucharist.

[frankmorrelli]

THANKYOU !! So much Gavin, this has been so helpful and Thank God this was heaven sent . I’ve been praying for clarity on this subject for some time now, and have had some strong convictions with the Lords supper being a remembrance / memorial . Your ministry has been such a blessing from God to me and I believe answered prayer . Thank you 🙏🙏🙏

[frankmorrelli]

Just listened to this a second time and I bought your Hunslingers book recommendation, awesome book I’m studying through it now .
THANK YOU
THANK YOU
THANKYOU
MR GAVIN ORTLUND for this

[renlamomtsopoe]

Gavin the previous logo looked more theologically electrifying! Please bring it back 😭🙏

[ProfYaffle]

❄️ Snow is cool and very fun 🛷
This teaching is cool and very useful

[ToeTag]

Kudos to both of you. It was a very interesting interview with Dr. Arcadi. What made it a good interview, in my mind, is your generous setups to help Dr. Arcadi express his ideas. Showing his tables, reading his quotes (and giving him time off screen to enjoy a hot beverage!). I'm in my 50's and still searching for the truth of this topic. I think, most importantly, is to take the elements in a respectful manner with a ready heart (not weighed down with unforgiven sins, and having forgiven others who may have trespassed against you). A regular remembrance of Christ's sacrifice can only help to keep him centered in our lives. If there is more to it, may your faith make it so. God bless you all.

And about John 6... my impression is that the entire crowd - and the disciples - didn't really follow up on the flesh eating. That leads me to believe they took Christ's statements about his flesh to be figurative. The overarching topic of that chapter is the crowd not believing that Jesus came from heaven. As Jesus was want to do, he upped the ante on his statement. Like others times where he said, “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Here, Jesus ups the ante again... paraphrased, I think he's saying, "so you don't believe I descended from heaven from the Father? Well, not only did I do that, you're going to have to eat my flesh in order to find eternal life."

Well, even after such an intense statement, the crowd and disciples to back to the topic of where Jesus came from! And, in verse 61&62 this is confirmed: "... “Do you take offense at this? Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?" We have no record of the disciples saying, "Jesus, yeah, about that eating your flesh thing. What's up with that? You know we're Jewish, and we thought you were a Jewish rabbi. How can you tell us to be cannibals?" Instead, as paralleled in other gospels, the questions about who do the disciples say Jesus is comes up and in answered.

If we are going to take things so literally, then during the Last Supper, ONLY that loaf of bread was Christ's body and ONLY that cup of wine was his blood. May it not be so! If there is Impanation, maybe there's also Apanstolic Succession happening with each loaf of bread we dedicate to Christ. I'm being a little tongue in cheek here for the fun of it. Please forgive me.

[theepitomeministry]

This will be great to listen to while I'm working!

[jayakare]

Fantastic overview of all perspectives
I put this on my car ride back home from church after Ash Wednesday service apt
🙏

[revmurrayarchibald-fisher]

Very Insightful! I especially appreciated the connecting of the divine & physical union in the incarnation with the physical & divine pancarnation! A true reality! Let’s get back to our Baptisticostal roots!

[phillipszabo]

Thanks for another great video! As a Catholic, I was surprised to hear such a heavily theological examination of the Eucharist. I do wonder, however, why you would consider the Catholic view (or others like it that have clear rules about how Jesus willed for us to "do this in memory of Me") to be a "restriction" of Jesus. I'd like to hear more on this because God has always been very clear about how He wants to be worshiped, and Jesus doesn't say "do whatever you want in memory of me" but rather, "do this". We clearly do not have the option of making up our own minds about this topic, and yet you seem to argue that all Christian groups, regardless of their sometimes very significant differences in belief and practice, don't have to worry much about their view on the Eucharist, just maybe try to think about it a little more. Looking forward to more great videos! Thanks again!

[catfinity]

The Anglican 39 Articles actually give a spiritual presence, not a corporeal one. The official Anglican view is more Reformed than Lutheran.

“The Body of Christ is given, taken, and eaten, in the Supper, only after an heavenly and spiritual manner. And the
mean whereby the Body of Christ is received and eaten in the Supper, is Faith.”
-39 Articles of Religion

[mfjh]

Gavin, please have a discussion with Dr. Brandt Pitre about the Eucharist. You'll find him very intellectual on the subject.