Why Tolkien Didn't Like Dune

Frank Herbert's Dune is one of science fiction's most influential and impactful pieces of literature. The political, religious and ecological themes surrounding the story have helped sculpt future novels for generations. That being said, while it's primarily regarded as hugely important to the masses, there's one equally important fantasy writer who had his own differing opinions on the story -- J. R. R. Tolkien.

In 1966, Tolkien wrote a letter to a man named John Bush regarding him obtaining a copy of Herbert's book. When asked about his opinion, Tolkien gave Bush a cordial but blunt description of what he felt. According to the letter, Tolkien prefaced by saying that he finds it impossible for an author to speak about another who works in a similar subject matter. He then adds, "In fact I dislike Dune with some intensity, and in that unfortunate case, it is much the best and fairest to another author to keep silent and refuse to comment."

[_magnify]

It's interesting that the Lord of the Rings story ends up being self-referential. "But what if we could use this myth to accomplish good?" When maybe the best answer is to “destroy” the myth.

[klidthelid]

Left out a major piece of context, Tolkien was saying in the letter that no author can really judge another authors work, because they will always have stylistic and creative differences, and he used dune as an example of a good book he didn’t care for. He specifically said dune was a good book, he just didn’t like it. He never said it was terrible or anything like that.

[Flamesofthunder]

Remember dislike and disrespect are two different things.

[lyamainu]

It really comes down to three reasons:
1. Tolkien was a devout Catholic, and Dune is very critical of religions and messianic figures in particular.
2. Tolkien hated allegory. Dune is an allegory.
3. Tolkien fundamentally believed that there is good in the world, and that the darkest days still have hope. Dune has a far darker take on human nature.

[vivs]

Tolkien never hated Dune. If we just look pass the clickbait title and statement we would be able to tell that Tolkien said he likes the storytelling and structure of Dune, he’s just not a big fan of it (sci-fi).

[Dietbeatings]

It was very respectful of Tolkien just to send a private letter explaining the reasons rather than making public statements for publicity.

[Fairy_Teeth]

Don’t forget how Tolkien said he still thought it was a good book but it just wasn’t his taste. It was truly him just saying “it’s good but it’s not for me”

[matthewodonnell]

I think Tolkien’s devout Catholicism played a role as well. The man loved Jesus & Dune’s whole thing was a critique of messianic figures.

Edit: To clarify, being religious doesn’t inherently make you dislike Dune. As a religious person myself, I am a fan of the books, especially in our modern era in which televangelists, politicians, & other disgusting opportunists take advantage of other people’s faiths to increase their own wealth & power. However, I do think Dune’s critique in the book is not just of false messiahs & disingenuous opportunists (though it certainly addresses them). The book explicitly says multiple times that Paul & later Leto II do such horrible things in order to make people realize just how horrible the very idea of a messiah is, so that none are ever entrusted with such power again. It’s definitely a bit of a twisted self-justification that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense when you think about it, but that is how they rationalized committing atrocities: becoming a horrible dictator & jihadi so that they could be pointed at as a historical mistake to never again repeat. Also, to those saying “Dune is a critique of Islam, not Christianity, ” they’re sister religions & extremely similar. The aesthetic is more based on Islam because the author thought that would be cooler & fit his setting better, but the critique can apply to either religion equally.

[barbecueman]

“LOTR was used by some racist people….maybe idk, but Dune is ambiguous so it magically can’t be co-opted and that makes it the better one” 🤓👆🏻

[stephenschaffenberger]

"Not a single elf in the entire book. 1/10" - Tolkien

[x]

Tolkien hated dune, Herbert hated Star Wars, Lucas hated Jabba the Hut… so it all makes sense to me. 😂

[dylannotsor]

For context: Tolkien fought in the trenches of WW1 as a second lieutenant, fighting in four or five major battles, including the somme. Frank herbert was a photographer in the Navy Seabees for 6 months and went home after receiving a non combat related head injury.
So, they're wartime experiences differ greatly and may have less to do with herberts worldview.

[nenkosx]

That’s not what the letter Tolkien wrote said but I guess those clicks don’t come on their own huh

[Uulfinn]

In the letter you're talking about, Tolkien said Dune was a good book, but he just didn't like it.

[brendan]

Saying Herbert fought in wwii is a bit of a stretch. He was a photographer for the Navy’s construction battalion and was discharged after 6 months when he suffered a non combat injury.

Tolkien on the other hand fought in the trenches at the battle of Somme, with him being at the front of a German gas attack and eventually getting trench fever. Most of his friends died and his battalion had been almost completely wiped out during the battle.

The two had vastly different military experiences

[hexenhammer]

Dune is an allegory. Simple as that.
"I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations..."
Part of a longer quote by Tolkien.

[AARon]

The problem here is that this was not the reason he claimed to hate Dune. As a matter of fact, he gave no such reason in this letter.

Second, this portrayal of The Lord of the Rings’ ethical argument is inaccurate. There is no such thing as a story *about* “good vs evil.” The Lord of the Rings actually deals heavily with questions of grey morality and manipulative authority, the allure of power, and the manipulation of art, beauty, and “sacred” things. That exact message is all over the story. Tolkien’s idea of heroism is only challenging to Dune in that it assumes that a somewhat Platonic “good” can exist within the hero, even a flawed hero. So many YouTubers wax philosophical over The Lord of the Rings, yet fail to miss the fundamental reason that the story’s mythos is challenging to postmodern moral tastes; it’s not the lack of grey and mixed morality - it’s the insistence upon some absolute moral good that *does* exist and *can* prevail, and must do so only in the midst of darkness.

Men, elves, and dwarves are all corrupted in his story, and the Orcs are the “White Walker” juxtaposition. But, to continue with this other metaphor, he includes some insistence upon an absolute good, something GRRM refuses to assume, likely for his own reasons. ASOIAF included the entire moral spectrum (even absolute evil) *except* for absolute good. This makes it congruous with postmodern tastes.

It’s not that you’re wrong to like Dune, or even to prefer it, it’s that your deconstruction of both stories by such a massive stretch misses the point of both, especially in juxtaposition. To complicate things further, this is only *speculated* to be the reason Tolkien hated Dune, usually by Dune fans, for that matter.

[fumblingman]

"Dune cannot be co-opted by extremists" is a very bold take

[ButImAGoodNoodle]

The charging cable as a nasal moisture collector really had me there 😂

[aleksanderuzelac]

Y'all simplify Tolkien too much. Evil in his works is a constant repeating threat to the world, that average people must endlessly overcome and hold faith in goodness. Complexity does not equal nuance