DUNE Vs Lord of the Rings | Why Did Tolkien Dislike Dune? | Frank Herbert and J.R.R. Tolkien

Two of the most influential authors of the twentieth century were J.R.R. Tolkien and Frank Herbert. These two men came to define two different but popular literary genres. Tolkien's magnum opus trilogy, The Lord of the Rings, released between 1954-1955, became the foundation of nearly all modern fantasy, while Frank Herbert's magnum opus, DUNE, released in 1965, became an extremely influential foundational work within science fiction, is credited as the best selling sci-fi novel of all time, and also spawned five sequels. Tolkien's Legendarium is based in a mythical past of Earth while Herbert's Dune Universe is based 20,000 years in humanity's future.

J.R.R. Tolkien actually read Frank Herbert's Dune shortly after its release and in a private letter said he "disliked Dune with some intensity." This video attempts to answer the question of why did Tolkien dislike Dune with such intensity by highlighting important differences between both influential works and the world-views and goals of each author.

Introduction: 0:00 - 5:25
Languages and Writing Style: 5:26 - 7:45
Allegory: 7:46 - 9:43
The Characters: 9:44 - 12:55
Religion, Morality and Mythology: 12:56 - 23:02
Conclusion: 23:04 - 25:51

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#Tolkien #LordOfTheRings #DUNE

[CosmicFaust]

*Video Chapters:*
1: Introduction: 0:00 - 5:25
2: Languages and Writing Style: 5:26 - 7:45
3: Allegory: 7:46 - 9:43
4: The Characters: 9:44 - 12:55
5: Religion, Morality and Mythology: 12:56 - 23:02
6: Conclusion: 23:04 - 25:51

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[eltravos]

Tolkien wanted to keep his opinion under wraps so he didn't hurt Herbert's career. MUCH MUCH MUCH respect for that. What a gentleman.

[thedukeofchutney]

Respect to Tolkien for keeping things quiet so as not to diss Herbert. Tolkien was quite picky when it came to what he read. One good example of this is how he very much disliked his good friend C.S. Lewis's The Chronicles of Narnia. Even there however Tolkien's granddaughter once recalled him directing her to read them. So I don't think JRRT disliking Dune is surprising, he was just very picky about his fiction.

[easternlights]

I'm a fan of both. The main difference to me seems to be that Herbert reminds me that there is great potential for evil within us, no matter how noble our intentions might be. Tolkien reminds me that there is good in us no matter what, and that good can win if we but let it.

[nickwilliams]

it's hardly surprising that Tolkien disliked _Dune._

Tolkien was a very religious man. While LotR was not explicitly conceived of as a Christian story (unlike Lewis' Narnia), it was definitely informed by the author's religious beliefs.

Herbert, by contrast, very clearly viewed religion as a social rather than divine phenomenon. Implicit in the depiction of religion in _Dune_ is the assumption that religions are a human creation. One could certainly not imagine the Missionaria Protectiva existing in a universe where divine revelation was a real thing.

[darthbiscuit]

"Dune is like Aragorn using the ring to defeat Sauron and becomes the dark lord himself" incredible I never thought about that

As someone who has enjoyed both Tolkien and Herbert's works, this is an amazing analysis. Tolkien's work is more inspiring and consoling. For me, Herbert invokes more dread than wonder, but I'm in awe of the world-building and characters.

[bradwolf]

Even when Tolkien disliked something, he was a gentleman about it. I didn't realize my high opinion of someone could get higher.

[kscgcdm]

Herbert seems to draw inspiration from a secular, sociological, scientific, and current-event point of view. Tolkien draws inspiration from epic romance, heroic journeys, languages, and myths of the past.

[ballisticus]

An additional factor in the language differences between the two authors is that Herbert started writing as a journalist, so I think his journalistic efficiency contrasts with Tolkien's literary flourish.

[ricardocastillo]

This is brilliantly reasoned.

I love them both. To me Dune is the mind, but LotR is the heart.

[BaseDeltaZero]

Tolkien was an absolute gentleman. I will never forget him describing himself as a Hobbit who basically enjoyed nothing more than eating and lazing around. Wonderful creator of grand tales and a wonderful human being. He is considered the father of high fantasy for good reason.

Herbert's contribution to the field of SF/Futurism cannot be ignored either. Dune can stand on its own merits as a legendary series/Universe.

I love SF and fantasy so don't have to choose a favourite novel or even a favourite genre. I can appreciate the pure escapism of both.

[onlyrevolutions]

I think it came down to Tolkien's devout Catholicism. Both men grew up steeped in the Catholic church, and though he didn't push religion in his works, he sincerely believed organized religion was ultimately a force for good. Herbert saw it as something far more complex and nuanced, and distrusted any sort of bureaucracy, particularly those that claimed to have all the answers and tried to put the vast, complicated universe in some sort of box. Tolkien believed that heroic figures with good intentions could and should use their power to lead others and better society. Herbert distrusted heroes and hero worship, and anyone who was drawn to positions of power over others, whether it was in a book club or a government.

[restitvtororbis]

Massive respect for the Tolkien not wanting to bomb on something he has such a dislike for.

[raynaldorusi]

Tolkien also disliked Shakespeare, safe to say the old guy wasn’t easily impressed 😅

[KTChamberlain]

Funnily enough, Brian Herbert, Frank Herbert's son is like the anthesis of Christopher Tolkien, J.R.R. Tolkien's youngest son. Christopher Tolkien merely edited his father's unpublished works and saw that they would see the light of day, whereas Brian Herbert has been viewed in a very controversial light in regards to Dune from Dune fans.

[chrisdude]

I love the part “Herbert only made 5 sequels” damn right

[bellatrixg]

Good analyses with one exception. Tolkien was not offering a "respite from the brutal nature of the world" 9:23, he was providing a respite from the brutal and nihilistic nature of modernism by showing the world with an optimistic metaphysics that Tolkien perceived it really possessed, but which had been veiled from the public's mind by modernism. The most important aspect of Lord of the Rings to Tolkien, as he expressed in On Fairy Stories, was its "inner consistently of reality" which included this positive metaphysics. Dune, by contrast, was a thoroughly modernist/postmodernist work and antithetical to Tolkien's objectives.

[gallienus]

This was an interesting intellectual exercise. It just goes to show you how classy a guy Tolkien was. Even in a private letter he didn't disparage another author even though he didn't like the guy's book. I've read both stories multiple times and I like each story (obviously) and I'm sure I'll read them both again in the future. While I'm not looking forward to and have no intention of watching Amazon's Rings of Power series I did watch Dune 2021 and I'm eagerly looking forward to watching Dune part 2.

[LCTesla]

In a sense, the fact that Paul Atreides first cynically used the mythology of the Fremen for his own purposes and then made it a reality through his actions, means that Herbert was teaching the same lesson as the one Tolkien believed in: that mythology does often contain a grain of objective truth about the universe. Perhaps these men didn't believe all that differently on this topic, but had very different ways of carrying out that belief.