Fixing Johto's Gym Leaders

When it comes to bad Gym Leaders, Gen 2 has plenty of them. In Pokemon Gold and Silver, they failed to make teams that captured the essence of Johto. Which is why we'll be trying to fix some of their issues!

#pokemon #pokemonscarletandviolet #pokemonscarletviolet

[Dankosaurr]

Typical youtuber moment but I was very sick when recording this, so I apologize for any inconsistencies with audio.

[domenicavallone]

Ninetales is better fit than Cubone for Morty. His gym is centered around flames and candlelight, the burned tower and ho-oh reside in Ecruteak City. Those fiery connections warrant Ninetales’ fire type. Plus, Ninetales is highly connected to the supernatural and spiritual realm, and probably should have been part psychic or ghost anyway.

[ethan]

Should have flipped Falkner and Morty as 1st and 4th gym leaders so Morty could have a team of Gastly and Misdreavus. It makes sense because Gastly is found in Sprout Tower.

[TheAzulmagia]

I feel like Scyther should stay on Bugsy. It evolves into a Johto Pokémon and it didn't get a lot of attention in Gen 1 anyway, making it have a nice identity here.

[RandomPokefan]

I really like these changes, but I think some could be improved.

Bugsy: I like giving him Ariados because it’s an under appreciated johto Pokémon, but scyther is pretty iconic as bugsy’s ace.

Morty: Instead of cubone, I think that stantler would have been a better choice. It’s a new johto pokemon, it fits his vibe, and it’s even found outside of ecruteak city. It just seems like a more suiting addition.

Pryce: I like the delibird addition, as it’s another under appreciated johto pokemon, but I feel like he could have gotten a fourth pokemon since Delibird isn’t all that good.Along with fitting his vibe, I feel like cloyster didn’t get much attention in gen 1, so it would be a perfect addition to his team.

Claire: While the concept for charmeleon on her team is cool, It doesn’t match Claire’s vibe very well. She has a very “sea dragon” aesthetic while lance has a “sky dragon” aesthetic. Because of this, I think that Lapras works much better. It has use on other dragon teams as well which makes it even better.

Overall though, I really liked the video. Keep it up!

[MatheusHenrique-wmbd]

I would set:
Falkner - Hoothoot (lead) and Murkrow (ace) - he is almost like Pidgeotto
Bugsy - Spinarak (lead), Ledyba and Heracross (ace - almost like Scyther)
Whitney - Snubbul with intimidate (lead) and Miltank (ace)
Morty - Stantler with intimidate (lead), Ninetales, Misdreavus and Gengar (ace)
Chucky - Primeape (lead), Poliwrath and Hitmontop (ace) - Machop line and the other hitmons are Bruno’s pkm
Jasmine - Skamory with spikes (lead), Magneton, Forretress and Steelix (ace)
Pryce - Delibird (lead), Sneasel, Dewgong and Piloswine (ace)
Claire - Gyarados (lead), Dragonair, Charizard, Kingdra (ace)

[domenicavallone]

Across the eight gym leaders, they collectively use 23 Pokemon. That’s 17.4% Of those 23, only four are Johtonian, Whitney’s miltank, Jasmine’s steelix, Pryce’s piloswine, and Clair’s kingdra. All the female gym leaders own a gen 2 pokemon, while Pryce is the only male gym leader to do so

[Clemehl]

10:15 _"If you have any disagreements or your own ideas: let me know in the comments below."_
*Challenge accepted*

To be honest, your ideas are solid and improve the team. Once the basic criteria are met, they are plenty of solutions and none are really better. Here some ideas of mine:

*Falkner* _(2 Pokémon):_ *Natu and Togetic*
_TM43 Detect is changed to TM43 Mirror Move._
*Explanation:* Natu is picked, as Sprout tower is full of Hoothoot (redundancy). Togetic foreshadows the Togepi egg. It has less stats than Noctowl (405 vs 452), more like Brock's Onix (385). Gen2 only introduced Aeroblast as Flying-type move and had 0 Flying-type TM (except HM Fly). In order to mimick Bide gimmicky move, Mirror Move is chosen. Detect is odd, as Protect is there, is learnt by everyone and has more PP.

*Bugsy* _(3 → 2 Pokémon):_ *Pineco and Heracross*
*Explanation:* The Pokémon are found with Headbutt, foreshadowing the mechanic. Heracross crippling double weakness to Flying-type is similar to Scyther double weakness to Rock-type while being equivalent stats-wise, yet easier to deal with (ton of Flying-types vs only Geodude and a traded Onix).

*Whitney* _(2 → 3 Pokémon):_ *Snubbull, * Clefairy and Miltank.
*Explanation:* If the Gym Leader were remade today, it would have been be Fairy-type. So I followed the theme by giving a future Fairy-type.
*Balance-wise:* Due to additional team member, Miltank could have a lower level. Perhaps Miltank's Rollout should be changed for another move, as it synergize too well with its Speed and bulk? Tyrogue as gift-Pokémon should be relocated at Union Cave, giving access to a strong Fighting-type by level 20. Heracross could also be made easier to find with Headbutt.
_If only Miltank was Fairy-type... Imagine they do a Pokémon Let's Go Entei/Raikou or Pichu/Marill and introduce a a regional Johtonian Miltank with the Fairy-type. People would go mad: Miltank was introduced in Johto! What do you mean it has a regional form?!_

*Morty* _(4 → 3 Pokémon):_ Haunter, *Misdreavus* and Gengar.
*Explanation:* I don't understand why, of all the Gym Leaders, je has 4 Pokémon. There are only 2 Ghost-type line. I cannot put Misdreavus as the ace, to respect Gengar higher stats.

*Chuck* _(2 → 4 Pokémon):_ *Tyrogue, * Primeape, Poliwrath and *Hitmontop*
*Explanation:* The idea is to not make it tougher. If Tyrogue is made available earlier, it demonstrates an hidden third evolution, as Tyrogue most likely going to evolve into Hitmonlee or Hitmonchan for most people.

*Jasmine* _(3 → 4 Pokémon):_ Magnemite, *Skarmory, * _Magneton_ and Steelix
*Explanation:* I evolved one Magnemite instead of picking a new Pokémon. It themes well with the Lighthouse and Ampharos. I also picked Skarmory, as Forretress is actually used by someone else (Koga).

*Brycen* _(3 → 4 Pokémon):_ *Delibird, Sneasel, * Dewgong and Piloswine
*Explanation:* Delibird set the Hail before it faints, introducing the concept of weather. Sneasel is perhaps a little lame, but I like the little guy!

*Clair* _(4 → 5 Pokémon):_ *Seadra, * Dragonair, *Mantine, Lapras* and Kingdra.
*Explanation:* Due to lack of Dragon-type, we need to find a solution. I shouldn't increase her team to 5 members, but she is the last one: she should be more distinctive. Seadra forshadows Kingdra. Lapras isn't a Dragon-type, but oddly can learn many of those move including Dragon Breath. Clair's theme is around blue sea-dragon, making it distinct to Lance. I left Gyarados to Lance, even if it fit Clair better. I picked Mantine instead, which can learn Twister for some reason.

For Lance, the team could be fixed as following: Gyarados, Ptera, Charizard, *Tyranitar* and Dragonite. The 6th one is hard to find. Kingdra and Lapras fit, but are Clair's. Steelix too, but is Jasmine's. Oddly, Arcanine do learn a few Dragon-type move, and is the "Legendary" Pokémon according to its Pokédex. I guess it would fit?

[ivanbluecool]

Morty would have been an amazing dark type gym leader. Think about it.

Houndoom Umbreon houndour and murcrow. It's an amazing line up.

[zbl]

Everyone still be sleeping on Clair having a Feraligatr…it looks like a dragon, knows dragon moves, is a Johto native, it’s power is similar to final evos Kingdra and Gyarados, and is a water type which is also Kingdra and Gyarados. No brainer.

[Horatio]

My Versions (Heavily inspired by Crystal Legacy)
Falkner: Pidgey, Noctowl (Noctowl uses Physical moves. Would be a Spearow and Murkrow if Falkner didn't mention his team being his dad's Pokémon)
Bugsy: Ledian, Ariados, Scyther
Whitney: Clefairy, Teddiursa, Miltank (The Gym is shaped like a Clefairy. Whitney needs to keep it)
Morty: Haunter, Stantler, Misdreavus, Gengar
Chuck: Hitmontop, Sudowoodo, Primeape, Poliwrath
Jasmine: Skarmory, Magneton, Corsola, Forretress, Steelix (I almost put Mawile here instead of Forretress, but that's a Hoenn Pokémon, no matter how much it suits Jasmine)
Pryce: Cloyster, Delibird, Dewgong, Jynx, Piloswine (I considered Stantler instead of Jynx, but thought Stantler made more sense for Morty. Also, Pryce needed something to deal with Fighting types)
Clair: Gyarados, Dragonair, Lapras, Dragonair, Kingdra (I considered Feraligatr, but replaced it with a second Dragonair due to it making Clair's team four Water types but only two Dragon types)

[ivanbluecool]

Gen 2 is definitely the most messy overall.

[butthemeatwasbad]

Hot take on Jasmine: Having gone from RBY to GSC as a kid, I think those Magnemites really drove home that the devs weren't afraid of changing types and made me keep an open mind about previously established things. Maybe I'm forgetting fights before this that did the same thing, but I remember being young and thinking "why are these Magnemites tanking so many attacks" whereas they were easy to mow through in gen 1. Of course this far in the future, that effect is a little lost though.

[casualcallahan]

The only critique from me is that giving Claire Charmeleon, doesn't make a whole buncha sense, sure it's foreshadowing for Lance's Charizard, but it kinda ruins her "aquatic dragon" theme she got going on to contrast Lance's memey Bird Keeper reputation (sometimes to the point of me calling her a yolked up Female Swimmer), depending on how I'm feeling, I'd replace one of her Dragonairs with either a Lapras (if I don't want people ragging me on about giving her starters) or Feraligatr (if I wanna feel quirky).

[박병준-vp]

Kanto Gym Leaders in Gen 2 also missed too many Gen 2 pokemons. Sunflora(Erika), Slowking(Misty or Sabrina), Ampharos(Surge), Azumarill or Politoed or Corsola or Octillery or Mantine(Misty), Sudowoodo or Tyranitar(Brock), etc. In HGSS, Misty uses Lanturn, Sabrina uses Woobuffet, and Blaine uses Houndoom.

[thepuppet]

I’ll be honest, Jasmine can still have a team of three. Steelix and Skarmory like you mentioned, and as for the third member…just get one more Magnemite and combine all three to make a Magneton. Like, those two Magnemites should evolve at that exact level they’re at. Also counters waters that Steelix would be scared of.

[kbasior]

Spinarak Pineco Ledian as Ace looking on how Bagsy's Badge looks

[michaelballack]

Morty should have Stantler with Hypnosis and Nightmare

[TotalAnalyst]

What site do you use to make videos also thanks for encouraging me to make videos

[jo_jo_jo]

I always felt that Johto leaders fell flat because they didn't have any Johto ace pokemons. Instead, they had Kanto 'mons, but even thiugh, they were the most repetitive ones. That's why I think they should have had a mixture between fairly unused pokemons in RBY an new ace pokemons. In my mind, their teams should have been:

*Johto leaders*

- Falkner: spearow and hoothoot (ace).
- Bugsy: paras and yanma (ace).
- Whitney: clefairy, jigglipuff and milktank (ace).
- Morty: haunter 1, haunter 2 and missdreavus (ace).
- Chuck: hitmonlee, hitmonchan and hitmontop (ace)
- Jasmine: magneton 1, magneton 2 and steelix (ace).
- Pryce: jynx, cloyster, dewgong and piloswine (ace).
- Claire: dragoniar 1, kabutops, dragonair 2, omastar and kingdra.

*Elite Four*
- Will: hypno, slowbro, jynx, exegutor and xatu (ace).
- Koga: muk, weezing, nidoking, victreebel and crobat (ace).
- Bruno: primeape, poliwrath, onix, machamp and heracross (ace).
- Karen: sneasel, murkrow, victreebel, umbreon and houndoom (ace).
- Lance: dragonair, gyarados, aerodactyl, charizar, and dragonite (ace).

*Kanto leaders*
- Brok: onix, rhydon, aerodactyl, corsola (from Johto) and golem (ace).
- Misty: golduck, seaking, kingler, politoed (from Johto) and starmie (ace).
- Surge: electrode, magneto, elektabuzz, lanturn (from Johto) and raichu (ace).
- Erika: tangela, parasect, victreebel, jumpluff (from Johto) and vileplume (ace).
- Janine: arbok, tentacruel, tentacruel, ariados (from Johto) and veomoth (ace).
- Sabrina: hypno, mr. mime, exeguttor, slowking (from Johto) and alakazam (ace).
- Blaine: rapidash, ninetales, arcanine, magcargo (from Johto) and magmar (ace).
- Blue: pidgeot, tauros, exeggutor, gyarados, arcanine and tyranitar (from Johto and ace).

- Red: venusaur, charizard, blastoise, lapras, snorlax and pikachu (ace).

- Giovanni (hidden battle): dugtrio, sandslash, marowak, quagsire (from Johto) and rhydon (ace).


As I was saying, the principle I've tried to use are:
- Give ace pokemons from Johto, to force the user to discover them.
- Give only one Johto pokemon per leader.
- The rest of the team must be made with pokemons from Kanto, none of which can be an ace from other previous trainer.
- For Morty and Jasmine I've repited some mons because back in the days there weren't as many as now.
- For Claire, I've tried to use a team based around the idea of 'dragons from the sea', as well as Lance uses 'dragons from the air'. That way, while he uses aerodactyl, Claire has kabutops and omastar, two ancient mons that no other rival uses in the games.
- For Whitney, I've used a mixture of normal and fairy types. If a pure normal is preferred, I would give her the following team: lickitung and miltank; for a mono fairy type team jigglypuff, clefairy and grandbull.
- For the Kanto leaders, I've given each of them a single new Johto pokemon, generally with a unique type combination, to make their teams more diverse, as well as maintaining their old ace pokemon, always that it was possible.