Calvinists Should Not Use The Lazarus Analogy #calvinism

[goodshorts]

Jesus stated in verses 40 and 42 that what He was doing was so that the people around him could bare witness and believe. Many Calvinists force their own perspective on the text and claim that Lazarus being raised from the dead is something else the text doesn’t claim in that Lazarus is an example of spiritual death. I do not understand why they do that.

[angelamitchell]

Agreed 👍 It’s amazing that I have children 10 and 12 that fully understood the meaning of this scripture while theologians twist it and miss it. Good work 👏

[victortorres]

“You were dead in trespasses and sins, but God………”

[RafielAlgoDiferente]

This are some of the problems that I encountered in Calvinism. That’s why context really matters. Thank you for this input.

[readyplayer]

If Calvinism was so scriptural, then why are all of their scriptural "proofs" such massive, poetic, interperative overreaches? Surely they could produce better, more clear arguments than these if the Bible so clearly and obviously teaches Calvinism...

[philipmurray]

While I've never seen it used as a direct parallel... Lazarus was dead. In Ephesians 2 we learn "we are dead in our sins" and God "made us alive in Christ." Forget Lazarus for a moment... Paul still uses the language of death in sin and being made alive in Christ.

[victor]

‘You were dead in trespasses and sins”

[Tigerex]

True salvation is by the blood of christ alone, that is what saves us, not our faith or predestination, all men fall short and cannot save ourselves.

God's grace however gives all mankind the ability and responsibility to believe or reject Christ .


Those who believe by faith will be saved as Jesus often says, those who dont are lost already.

The faith dies not save you, Jesus saves those as promised who have faith in him

It is both mans ability and responsibility to believe, not God's responsibility to make them believe, or pass over them so they cannot believe, that is extra biblical gnostic nonsense, not from the holy scriptures

[GHMYahooka]

Hey I have that same exact hoodie, its so warm and soft isnt it? God speed young man.

[krisbadje]

Amen! It has always bugged me when they take it out of context...and they are several popular songs that use that assumption also..

[josephalvinalmedatv]

Our spiritual (salvation) and physical resurrection will happen the same way. God will raise us, it is all of Him nothing of man.

[CrypticPresence]

No one can see the kingdom of God without being born again. And no one can come to me unless granted to him by the Father. Sounds to me that we are hopeless. God recreates us. Not us recreating ourselves. Because he gives us a new heart and he causes us to walk in his statutes. He writes his law on our hearts. He sprinkles clean water on us. Salvation is a work of God. And when he does save a person, that person perseveres by Gods power and grace. Take your disgusting boasting out my face. You didn’t choose God on your own. You didn’t possess the ability to do any such thing. Not all men have faith. Faith is a gift. Not a result of works. I look at myself and my past and where I was headed. I was lost and hopeless. God has picked me off that wide path and put me on the straight and narrow. Glory be to him for saving me. I have no boast except the Lord and his saving work on the cross. God of the universe would even consider a sinner like me to save and have me in his kingdom. Glory be to God.

[e.t.h.]

my question would be, what does it mean to be dead in sins then? I think it is often cited to illustrate that a spiritually dead person can know more become alive of their own accord. Then a physically dead person could get out of the grave.

[SojournerDidimus]

There's plenty of other passages that point to predestination. Observe simply how many of the language is in passive tense; be born again, be cleansed, be drawn, be renewed, have your heart of stone changed, etc. All these are about what is done to a person, not what the person does.

[ironleatherwood]

I'm definitely not a Calvinist. Predestination and free will are both clearly in God's word. Spurgeon preached both truths, and many do not know that. Calvinist misquote Spurgeon on purpose.

[soundthealarmjesusiscoming]

Yup.
Rapture Verses Below

The Lord has been giving myself and many others all over the world dreams, visions, and prophetic Words, mine since 2015.

Numbers 12:6 KJV
And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

Acts 2:17‭-‬18 KJV
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Matthew 24:36
King James Version
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Revelation 2:22 KJV
Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Revelation 3:10-11 KJV Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I ALSO WILL KEEP THEE FROM THE HOUR OF TEMPTATION, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. (Considering this applies to churches of today, the church of Philadelphia WILL BE KEPT from the hour of temptation.)

Luke 21:28 KJV (In the Words of Jesus Christ.)
28 And when these things BEGIN to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. (The word BEGIN implies that the remaining particulars of events will come after our redemption.)

Luke 21:36 KJV (In the Words of Jesus Christ.)
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
(The raptured will be standing before Jesus as these things come to pass.)

1 Thessalonians 1:10 KJV
10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which DELIVERED us from the wrath to come. (DELIVERED FROM WRATH)

1 Thessalonians 4:13‭-‬18 KJV
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord IN THE AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
(Rapture is different from the 2nd Coming. Rapture is when we are caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the Air. The 2nd Coming is when the Lord returns with His Saints/Bride to judge the righteous and the wicked-descend on Mt.of Olives with His Saints)

Zechariah 14:4 KJVAnd his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 KJV
9 For God hath NOT APPOINTED US TO WRATH, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Daniel 12:1‭-‬3 KJV
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time THY PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. (Delivered before the time of trouble such as never was.)

Jeremiah 30:7 KJV
Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be SAVED OUT OF IT. (Saved out of Jacob's Trouble)

1 Corinthians 15:50-53 KJV
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
(Feast Day Trumpets different than Angelic Trumpets of Revelation?)

Malachi 3:16‭-‬18 KJV
Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name. And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I WILL SPARE THEM, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. THEN SHALL YE RETURN, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not. (Spared and returning with the Lord to discern between righteous and wicked.)

Revelation 22: 16-22
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
17And the Spirit AND THE BRIDE say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19and if any man shall take away from the word$s of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. 21The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. THE END
(If the Spirit AND THE BRIDE, does that not imply that the Bride is already with the Lord when the Tribulation Saints are called?)

Psalm 90:10 KJV
The days of our years are threescore years and ten; And if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, Yet is their strength labour and sorrow; For it is soon cut off, AND WE FLY AWAY. (Where will we fly away to?)
FYI: (Israel's birthday 1948) + (maximum generation 80 years) = 2028 - (7 year tribulation) = the year 2021 (Rapture soon???!!!)
What wrath do you believe these verses are talking about that we shall be delivered from?
What wrath has God NOT appointed us to?
What time is being referred to that we shall be delivered from?
What time, unlike any other, shall we be counted worthy to escape?
Where will we fly away to?
How do you explain all those given rapture dreams and visions and prophetic Words today, particularly those who have discerned the spirits as in 1John4 and have received multiple confirmations from the Lord?

Matthew 24:38 KJV For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, (This will be going on when the Lord returns on the clouds. This doesn't sound like the great 7 year tribulation to me.)

Matthew 24:22 KJV
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: BUT FOR THE ELECTS SAKE THOSE DAYS SHALL BE SHORTENED.

Matthew 24:29-‬31 KJV
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and THEY SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Has much of "the tribulation of those days" in Matthew 24 already happened and if the days be CUT SHORT FOR THE ELECT, could the rapture of the Bride happen anytime now?

Matthew 24:44 KJV
Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Ezekiel 33:6 KJV “But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.”

Would you allow your Bride to suffer great tribulation?

John 10:27 “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:”

God bless in the name of Jesus Christ.

[josephalvinalmedatv]

Even if the story of Lazarus has only one literal meaning or context it can be used as an analogy just like any other story. Calvinists are not trying to change the context so you can't really stop them from using this as an illustration.

Calvinists don't try to change the literal meaning of the story. But it illustrates Eph 2:1 that He made us alive who were dead in trespasses and sin. Yes Lazarus was earlier raised spiritually from dead in sin to salvation in the same way he was raised from physical death.

So it is a perfect analogy of Eph 2:1, Col 2:13.

[undergroundpublishing]

You guys need to read the Chruch fathers and learn the Pythagorean hermeneutical method.

Rule 1: Find a pattern.
Rule 2: Make the pattern mean whatevever you want
Rule 3: Say that's what the initiated believe
Rule 4: Write: "We say" and act like all Christians since the Apostles beleived that.
Rule 5: Forge a document saying that Peter said that.
Rule 6: Hire a professional rhetorician/orator to spread your BS.
Rule 7: Make sure he rhymes like Louis Farakhan so that he'll dupe the least common denominator. They are the one's who will actually simp for the cause.

Ya' welcome.

Nothing in Calvinism is true. Literally NOTHING. God is not impassible. God is not immutable. God is not a Monotheistic deity. Read your Bible. God defined "One" as a plurality 1500 years before Sinai. Peace.