CALVINISM versus ROMANS 5 - Part 1

Just 4 chapters before Romans 9 comes Romans 5. The Calvinist has to be an excellent parkour cheetah flipping dodger to get through Romans 5. The fact that they believe anything but scripture (ABS) becomes apparent when passing through Romans 5.

Or Venmo @kevin-thompson-418

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[a.k.]

@9:50 I like to say: "Context is king and the throne of calvinism sits empty."

[moniqueanders]

This is going to be an other hour and a half of my time well spent 😊

[canibezeroun]

Kevin just threw me on a wild goose chase concerning the Fall just from reading this verse in Romans. Thank you for reinforcing my desire to inquire about this Word! Very productive!

[clarkl]

Oh my...at about the 4:00 mark I was nodding and ah-ha-ing! Because I did that exact thing with family 🙄I had spent several months looking into Calvinism. I was so excited/upset/defensive that our interaction was...well...not as I had hoped 😣 Also: appreciate your explanation of how VARIOUS components of something can be presented but not every one. Like we would say, "I made it on 2 tanks of gas" and EXPECT others to correctly identify OTHER requirements. THAT makes sense.

[jimfoard]

I was going to a very loving, orthodox and conservative Calvinist church for almost two years, but just recently discontinued my fellowship there. I did not have so many doctrinal theological issues with them because I keep my theology simple: The Bible, The Apostles Creed and the Nicene Creed. They also believed in the Westminster Confession which I had not read, but I had no disputes with them. I appreciate their love and kindness. From what I could see they loved Jesus very much, supported pro-life causes and charities and lived very moral lives. I left that church though because in my personal life I was a mess, suffering from severe depression, anxiety and also my moral life in struggling against the flesh mainly on the internet was a catastrophe. Since I have discontinued going there, and it has only been about a week, everything has improved. I am now gaining the victory over things that I had been struggling with and am back on the path of overcoming again. I am praising the Lord for His salvation and grace. I still listen to a wonderful Calvinist based radio station, Family Radio, because they have a lot of scripture reading and inspirational programs and play the most wonderful inspirational music that I have ever heard, however when some of the Calvinist teachers are on I have to turn it off, but others of their teachers, like the late James Montgomery Boice, are very good. I listen to him on Sunday mornings. I am not a big fan of the late R.C. Sproul, but I do expect to see him in heaven. He loved and served our Lord. Jesus is Lord.

[jayd]

The prolonged ending 😂 The message was great... thanks Kevin

[apilkey]

...According to Romans 5:18a if judgment came upon ALL men, which no one would deny; then the free gift also came upon ALL men:

ROMANS 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one JUDGMENT CAME UPON ALL MEN to condemnation; EVEN SO by the righteousness of one the FREE GIFT CAME UPON ALL MEN unto justification of life.

QUESTION: Are these “ALL MEN” who are being talked about in Romans 5:18 only believers as well?

Did judgment and condemnation come upon only those who would believe or does it come upon EVERYONE who has ever been born throughout all of history?

It’s quite clear that this same group of people in the first half of verse 18 are the exact same group in the second half of verse 18 to whom the free gift of eternal life comes.

ALL means “ALL” in 18a.

ALL means “ALL” in 18b.

Q: What must be done with a gift?

A: It must be received.

...According to Romans 5:17 life comes to those who RECEIVE God’s Grace and God’s gift and NOT to those predestined before the foundation of the world:

ROMANS 5:17

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more THEY WHICH RECEIVE abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Q: Who shall reign in life?

A: Those who RECEIVE the abundance of GRACE.

ROMANS 5:21

21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life BY Jesus Christ our Lord.

The keyword in verse 21 is “BY” Jesus Christ.

In other words it’s not “before” or “prior to” Jesus Christ as reformers believe.

[SonsofIssac]

That’s my go to question for Calvinists to try to get them to start thinking for themselves “ Can you show me from scripture how you know that Christ died for you personally?” My 16yo daughter can list off several verses in a short time. A Calvinist will completely avoid the obvious scriptures that make it clear and delve into technicalities and “Greek”, works, experience etc.... sometimes they will go to the Christ died for his sheep verse in Matthew and hunker down as if they were on a dessert island clinging to the only scrap of scripture that survived the wreck.... then I know they are not willing to have an actual honest discussion and it’s time to move on...

[HolyMolysDonutShop]

That ending is ridiculous. I'm laughing so hard. I almost missed it because of the music 😂😂😂

[HarrisBeauchamp]

Hi Kevin, could the negative inference fallacy come into play for some of these passages (“Christ died for the ungodly, ” and “Christ died for the unjust”) - For example, even if Jesus only died for certain of the ungodly, you could still say legitimately that he died for “the ungodly, ” as it’s a description of the kind of persons he died for. Obviously, neither can you get limited atonement out of those passages conclusively.

Maybe there’s a man who trains Australian Shepherds for sheep work - he doesn’t train every dog, but we could still say “he trains dogs.”

What do you think?

[jeangreen]

Skating around the subject, nice ending ^^

[awakeandfearless]

This definitely clears up all the very sneaky ways universalists use scripture to prove their beliefs...

[MarkRidlen]

That girl with the rollerblades is pretty impressive though...

[tsegabkataro]

After watching your video about word analysis of election, I have tried to make my own analysis about "World". I have not finished it yet. It will be helpful If you make one.
Tnx I have started to pass procedures before making any propositions.

[acetheo]

Is the Vineyard calvinist? Or Calvary Chapel? I get them mixed up.
I was in one of their churches many years ago, and they were reading Romans 5... the preacher that is... and they jumped right over v. 18-19...
I raised my hand to call out this fact that they JUMPED over 2 key verses and got kicked out of church.
You say Calvinists have a problem with these verses... freewillers do too.

[MrHwaynefair]

Kevin - I so appreciate your stand against Calvinism (I graduated from a Calvinist seminary and pastored within a Calvinist denomination for 9 years).
But I do have issues with your interpretation of Romans 5. For instance, you say: 1:23:08
"The free gift of justification to life is to all men and the free gift has to be received. How do you know that? Because the text says it - it says it clear as day couldn't be any clear if you stayed up with the clearing machine all night..."
But the text does NOT (literally) say, "the free gift HAS TO BE RECEIVED."
I quickly noticed the italicized words in the KJV (on screen) which add to what is actually there in the Greek - and (to me) seem to shift away from the "offense" of this text to assuage our sensibilities.
i.e. "the free gift came..."
But a more faithful translation (I believe) is like here in the NASV (and in most English translations), "So then, as through one offense the result was condemnation to all mankind, so also through one act of righteousness the result was justification of life to all mankind."
We must not soften the offensive truth found here (for fear of being labeled a heretical universalist) and, for instance, in Romans 3:24, "and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."
Ins both cases the emphasis is NOT on the necessity or decisive finality of human agency (receiving) - it is that God has (in Christ) accomplished something far greater than the first Adam through the second or last Adam, Jesus Christ!
As you can see - I am no longer a Calvinist - and yet you can see that I still believe in the ultimate Sovereignty of God - who (I finally came to see) is Love:
Jesus, the Word, was sent to save the world (John 3:17) - Will he fail?
"so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it." Is.55:11
"By Myself I have sworn; truth has gone out from My mouth, a word that will not be revoked: Every knee will bow before Me, every tongue will swear allegiance." Is.45:23
Richest Blessings!
Wayne Fair
[P.S. If anyone reading this comment sincerely wants to know the truth about Historic Christian Universalism (as opposed to common misconceptions and misrepresentations) please read, "The Inescapable Love of God" by Thomas Talbot and "A Larger Hope" by Ilaria Ramelli]

[M.R.-for-Jesus]

Kevin - at the end of this video you made the reference to 1 Cor 15:21-22 where there Calvinist alludes to "in Adam" and "in Christ". I completely understand your reasoning about refuting this link, i.e., in 1 Cor 15 "in Christ" is a subset, the one who put themselves into Christ. However, what do you think about the following: 1 Cor 15 talks about physical death and the resurrection of the dead - well, we do all die physically as a consequence to Adam's sin, that is removal from the garden and hence, the tree of life. However, this death is compared to physical resurrection - and we do all resurrect (saved and unsaved) - the saved to "eternal life" and the unsaved to the "second death" - hence, we all die in Adam and we all are made alive in Christ (but a subset will die the second death again). This way the context of death and resurrection is maintained. I can see both scenarios - what do you think about my proposal in your judgment?

[jeffreybailey]

Great video. I agree that faith precedes regeneration, however, I disagree that Titus 3 is the only clear example...unless you are just talking about the use of the word regeneration in a passage. If you look at Romans 4:16-24, it seems to be a clear analogy of regeneration through Abraham. The typical vocab is used: believe, faith, grace, hope, dead, deadness, quickening, inputted righteousness, etc. all in the same analogy. Paul even seems to qualify this in verses 23-24 as written to us as an example. This analogy to me seems to be pretty clear that the believing was coming from Abraham prior to his regeneration, and inputted righteousness, leading to the child of promise. Your thoughts?

[seanwilbur]

Hi! Do you have more info on Romans 5:12 and how that would apply to the death of infants and the mentally handicapped? You briefly mentioned it in your video and suggested verse 13 as a solution, do you have more info? Thanks!

[TheMaskedBaptist]

@44:18 - - Romans 5:19. My head "exploded"...