Romans 9 Doesn't Teach Calvinism (Orthodox Apologetics)

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[Seraphim-Hamilton]

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Refuting Protestantism from the Bible in 17 Hour Lecture Set:


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Topic list for Protestantism course:

1: Why Answer Protestantism from the Bible?
2: The Arc of Biblical Theology: Creation, Covenant, Redemption, Glorification
3: How Does Christ Purchase Salvation?
4: Justification, Deification, and Imputation
5: Justification, Deification, and Imputation (2)
6: Liturgical Worship in Biblical Theology
7: What Happens in Baptism and the Eucharist?
8: Apostolic Succession, the Holy Priesthood, and the Visibility of the Church
9: The Communion of Saints: Veneration and Intercession
10: The Woman: The Virgin Mary in Scripture
11: Now Mine Eyes Have Seen: Iconography and Idolatry
12: The Biblical Doctrine of Tradition

[davidw.]

Calvinism is so out of the clear blue in the 16th century. Calvin should have stayed a lawyer

[aarongall]

Orthodox here. As a guy who studied a little pottery, it is interesting to note that it is necessary to use old pottery in the clay called Grog. It lessens the shrinkability of the clay when it is fired. My second son's name is Seraphim. He is a is fiery one.

[tecnitrongames]

I was actually wondering about the Orthodox view of this exact passage. On a surface level it does sound like a strong Biblical supporter for Calvinism, but I get how it’s just my misinterpretation.

[fingerzfrienemy]

Proverbs 16:4 KJV
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

[Cornelius]

“Everyone fulfills God’s purpose” is… Calvinism. Some are “spoiled in his hands” and he works them into vessels of destruction. It’s still God doing the vessel-making. The 2 Timothy passage is closer to a refute, except that a couple verses prior reference Paul’s purpose in the metaphor: “The Lord knows who are his.”

[zachdavenport]

Romans 9 is quoting Isaiah 45, not Jeremiah. It’s a nearly word for word quote

[UnblockingTheTruth]

Now we know why God commanded that the silver and gold vessles be put into His treasury! They were representations of saved believers! Also, I rember reading this verse. Is it part of the clay pots analogy?

Before your pots can feel the thorns, he shall take them away as with a whirlwind, both living, and in his wrath. Psalms 58:9.

[bignoob]

James white is always looking for a good debate on Roman's 9

[chaikaomoua]

I never liked calvinism nor arminianism. The real truth is some where in the middle of the two. Just be careful how we interpret scriptures. Many people interpret scriptures with an agenda or twists scriptures to make it support their views.

[Dilley_G]

Thanks for this. Other groups have this teaching too, not just calvinists, many Baptists and Pentecostals do. We need more content to debunk this. Greetings from a Lutheran Brother

[stevedoetsch]

You can interpret any part of the Bible to mean anything you want as long as you follow the Protestant method of reading the Bible in which each man asserts that his interpretation is more authoritative than everbody else's. In the chaos of Protestantism, your method of exegesis determines your brand of Christianity.

[anchorweight]

Only, Pharaoh and Esau were used as examples. Soo, not convinced.

[russellh]

If Christians can't agree on which version of Christianity is true, why should anyone believe any Christian when they they say they are believing in the true god?

[davidcloyd]

The truth is so simple you’ll slap your forehead, , GENTILES are the ones spoken of in the context of predestination. They were outcasts, but the Gospel has brought them in.

[jjpenny]

I read Romans supports God's sovereignty and His actions over all includes salvation. Unless praying saves you and not Him.

[benry]

A bit misleading to say it doesn't teach Calvanism. You have an alternative reading. It still supports calvanism somewhat. This is coming from someone who isn't a calvnism but who doesn't want to strawman the other side.