Did Jesus claim to be God? Bart Ehrman vs Peter J Williams

Bart Ehrman & Peter J Williams debate how the Gospels portray the claims Jesus made about himself.

This is an extract of agnostic Bible scholar Bart Ehrman and Peter J Williams debating the reliability of the Gospels.

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[reversegearz]

When Jesus come back to our world later, he'll disappointed how people change his teachings to something totally different than what he originally said.

[dronestar]

Moses parted the Red Sea.. Is he God? No.

[kevin_s]

Jesus is Probhet and Messenger

🔰 Cleopas testimony that said Jesus is a prophet
Luke 24:19
He said to them, “What things?”
They said to him, “The things concerning Jesus, the Nazarene, who was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people;

🔰The testimony of the woman who said Jesus is a prophet
John 4:19
The woman said to him, “Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet.

🔰 Prophet Jesus
Matthew 21:11
The multitudes said, “This is the prophet, Jesus, from Nazareth of Galilee.”

🔰 Matthew 21:46
When they sought to seize him, they feared the multitudes, because they considered him to be a prophet.

🔰 John 9:17
Therefore they asked the blind man again, “What do you say about him, because he opened your eyes?”
He said, “He is a prophet.”

🔰 John 7:40
Many of the multitude therefore, when they heard these words, said, “This is truly the prophet.”

🔰 Jesus, the Nazarene, was rejected in Nazareth, and Jesus said:

Matthew 13:57
They were offended by him.
But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor, except in his own country, and in his own house.”

Mark 6:4
Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor, except in his own country, and among his own relatives, and in his own house.”

🔰 John 4:44
For Jesus himself testified that a prophet has no honor in his own country

🔰 Peoples say Jesus is a prophet
Luke 7:16
Fear took hold of all, and they glorified God, saying, “A great prophet has arisen among us!” and, “God has visited his people!”

🔰 For those who deify Jesus
Matthew 7:22
Many will tell me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?’

Matthew 7:23
Then I will tell them, ‘I never knew you!. Depart from me, you who work iniquity!'



🔰 Jesus is a Messenger of God

John 5:24
Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 5:30
I can of myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous; because I don’t seek my own will, but the will of my Father who sent me.

John 7:28
Jesus therefore cried out in the temple, teaching and saying, “You both know me, and know where I am from. I have not come of myself, but He who sent me is true, whom you don’t know.

John 7:29
I know him, because I am from him, and He sent me.”

John 7:33
Then Jesus said, “I will be with you a little while longer, then I go to Him who sent me.

John 8:16
Even if I do judge, my judgment is true, for I am not alone, but I am with the Father who sent me.

John 8:18
I am one who testifies about myself, and the Father who sent me testifies about me.”

John 8:26
I have many things to speak and to judge concerning you. However he who sent me is true; and the things which I heard from him, these I say to the world

John 9:4
I must work the works of him who sent me, while it is day. The night is coming, when no one can work.

John 11:42
I know that you always listen to me, but because of the multitude that stands around I said this, that they may believe that you sent me.”

John 13:20
Most certainly I tell you, he who receives whomever I send, receives me; and he who receives me, receives him who sent me.”

John 16:5
But now I am going to him who sent me, and none of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent
⏫ Jesus do shahadah

John 17:8
for the words which you have given me I have given to them, and they received them, and knew for sure that I came from you, and they have believed that you sent me.

John 17:23
I in them, and you in me, that they may be perfected into one; that the world may know that you sent me, and loved them, even as you loved me.

John 17:25
Righteous Father, the world hasn’t known you, but I knew you; and these knew that you sent me.

𝗝𝗼𝗵𝗻 13:16 𝗡𝗜𝗩
𝗩𝗲𝗿𝘆 𝘁𝗿𝘂𝗹𝘆 𝗜 𝘁𝗲𝗹𝗹 𝘆𝗼𝘂, 𝗻𝗼 𝗦𝗲𝗿𝘃𝗮𝗻𝘁 𝗶𝘀 𝗴𝗿𝗲𝗮𝘁𝗲𝗿 𝘁𝗵𝗮𝗻 𝗵𝗶𝘀 𝗠𝗮𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗿, 𝗻𝗼𝗿 𝗶𝘀 𝗮 𝗠𝗲𝘀𝘀𝗲𝗻𝗴𝗲𝗿 𝗴𝗿𝗲𝗮𝘁𝗲𝗿 𝘁𝗵𝗮𝗻 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗢𝗻𝗲 𝗪𝗵𝗼 𝗦𝗲𝗻𝘁 𝗵𝗶𝗺

𝗠𝗮𝘁𝘁𝗵𝗲𝘄 10:24 𝗡𝗜𝗩
𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝗦𝘁𝘂𝗱𝗲𝗻𝘁 𝗶𝘀 𝗻𝗼𝘁 𝗮𝗯𝗼𝘃𝗲 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗧𝗲𝗮𝗰𝗵𝗲𝗿, 𝗻𝗼𝗿 𝗮 𝗦𝗲𝗿𝘃𝗮𝗻𝘁 𝗮𝗯𝗼𝘃𝗲 𝗵𝗶𝘀 𝗠𝗮𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗿


🌐🌐🌐🌐
🔰 Jesus is a Messenger of God

John 5:24
Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 5:30
I can of myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous; because I don’t seek my own will, but the will of my Father who sent me.

John 7:28
Jesus therefore cried out in the temple, teaching and saying, “You both know me, and know where I am from. I have not come of myself, but He who sent me is true, whom you don’t know.

John 7:29
I know him, because I am from him, and He sent me.”

John 7:33
Then Jesus said, “I will be with you a little while longer, then I go to Him who sent me.

John 8:16
Even if I do judge, my judgment is true, for I am not alone, but I am with the Father who sent me.

John 8:18
I am one who testifies about myself, and the Father who sent me testifies about me.”

John 8:26
I have many things to speak and to judge concerning you. However he who sent me is true; and the things which I heard from him, these I say to the world

John 9:4
I must work the works of him who sent me, while it is day. The night is coming, when no one can work.

John 11:42
I know that you always listen to me, but because of the multitude that stands around I said this, that they may believe that you sent me.”

John 13:20
Most certainly I tell you, he who receives whomever I send, receives me; and he who receives me, receives him who sent me.”

John 16:5
But now I am going to him who sent me, and none of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know You,
the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent

John 17:8
for the words which you have given me I have given to them, and they received them, and knew for sure that I came from you, and they have believed that you sent me.

John 17:23
I in them, and you in me, that they may be perfected into one; that the world may know that you sent me, and loved them, even as you loved me.

John 17:25
Righteous Father, the world hasn’t known you, but I knew you; and these knew that you sent me.

𝗝𝗼𝗵𝗻 13:16 𝗡𝗜𝗩
𝗩𝗲𝗿𝘆 𝘁𝗿𝘂𝗹𝘆 𝗜 𝘁𝗲𝗹𝗹 𝘆𝗼𝘂, 𝗻𝗼 𝗦𝗲𝗿𝘃𝗮𝗻𝘁 𝗶𝘀 𝗴𝗿𝗲𝗮𝘁𝗲𝗿 𝘁𝗵𝗮𝗻 𝗵𝗶𝘀 𝗠𝗮𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗿, 𝗻𝗼𝗿 𝗶𝘀 𝗮 𝗠𝗲𝘀𝘀𝗲𝗻𝗴𝗲𝗿 𝗴𝗿𝗲𝗮𝘁𝗲𝗿 𝘁𝗵𝗮𝗻 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗢𝗻𝗲 𝗪𝗵𝗼 𝗦𝗲𝗻𝘁 𝗵𝗶𝗺

𝗠𝗮𝘁𝘁𝗵𝗲𝘄 10:24 𝗡𝗜𝗩
𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝗦𝘁𝘂𝗱𝗲𝗻𝘁 𝗶𝘀 𝗻𝗼𝘁 𝗮𝗯𝗼𝘃𝗲 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗧𝗲𝗮𝗰𝗵𝗲𝗿, 𝗻𝗼𝗿 𝗮 𝗦𝗲𝗿𝘃𝗮𝗻𝘁 𝗮𝗯𝗼𝘃𝗲 𝗵𝗶𝘀 𝗠𝗮𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗿

[booooo-urns]

You can’t beat someone that’s not even debating. Bart never puts himself out on a ledge during these discussions trying to prove a point. He understands the texts and just offers honest analysis. Love hearing him speak.

[muhammadfuadikhwansyah]

"They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with Allah - Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers."

Qur'an, Al-Maida: 72

[scorpiondz]

Jesus was a prophet a man who called people to worship the one true God.


God of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus. the king of kings the creator of the heavens and the earth. to him we belong and to him we will return.

[sikandernuruddin]

One thing is clear Jesus never said I am one of the triune god, god fully human and that you should/can worship me.
It’s good that all of you are looking for truth - may god bless you all and guide you!

[coreyevans]

No, Jesus never claimed to be God.
He claimed to be the Messiah.
Being the Messiah is different to being God.

[Bartwrite]

Poor Peter Williams was definitely outclassed. He should learn to present arguments rationally.

[Lukas__ayat_]

The fact is that in Islam Jesus has more miracles than in Christianity, but they do not make Gods

[mistabook]

Very impressive how Ehrman calmly and amicably returns the goalposts to their original position when it's his turn to speak again.

[SeekersTavern...]

Okay, I understand it. It's pedantic and obtuse scepticism run amock. If Bart agrees that Mark portrayed Jesus as a divine being then why bother with the argument that Jesus himself never directly said he was God? The message is conveyed to the beleivers either way. Who cares whether it's done through poetry, or imagery or literal statements?

Furthermore, this is just a book, there is a very strong oral tradition on top of that as well, anything not written was most likely said to those who didn't get it from the books.

Expecting written accounts of literal interpretation seems like his protestant background shinning through, his argument is ridiculous.

By comparison, if I tell you that there are two people that live together, go out on dates and have kids I don't need to tell you that they are in a relationship. You would have to be as thick as a German wall not to get that.

[dar]

10:40
what a
Both agree that Jesus never said, he is God

[truthseeker]

it's astounding how an independent scholar's view coincides with what islam teacher abt jesus(pbuh) that he was a prophet but never claim to be god

[Greenteaz]

This dialogue between God and Jesus in the day of judgment:

And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, “O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, ‘Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah?'” He will say, “Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.

I said not to them except what You commanded me – to worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness.

If You should punish them – indeed they are Your servants; but if You forgive them – indeed it is You who is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

Allah will say, “This is the Day when the truthful will benefit from their truthfulness.” For them are gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide forever, Allah being pleased with them, and they with Him. That is the great attainment. (Al-Maidah 5:116-119)

Isa (peace be upon him) or Jesus was a prophet like many came before him and was a human being. He never claimed to be the God. It's all made up stories. Miraclus power comes from God, but that doesn't make one God anyway. God is one and only, He is unique, He has no partner, no father, no son. Satan is misguiding and fooling so many human beings! Oh Allah, expose your true colours, let all know you in your true perspective. Aameen.

[legalAlien]

aren't God. THey EMPOWERED by God" Bart Ehrman.
yup just like Jesus
John 5:30
"By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but HIM who SENT me"
Jesus just a prophet which been given miracles by the One who sent him

[sabirsreeneebus]

Jesus himself said thgat he is not God. He was acting on behalf of his FATHER.

[Belief_Before_Glory]

Good Try! 😂 My Turn!
"For in him all the fullness of the 👉Godhead dwells bodily." — Colossians 2:9

"Without controversy, the mystery of godliness is great: 👉God was revealed in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen by angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, and received up in glory." — 1 Timothy 3:16

"Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son. They shall call his name Immanuel;" which is, being interpreted, 👉"God with us." — Matthew 1:23

'"If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on, you know him, and have seen him." Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us." Jesus said to him, 👉"Have I been with you such a long time, and do you not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father. How do you say, 'Show us the Father?"' — John 14:7-9

"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day. He saw it, and was glad." The Jews therefore said to him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Most certainly, I tell you, 👉before Abraham came into existence, I AM." — John 8:56-58

"looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great 👉God and Savior, Jesus Christ."
— Titus 2:13

'"I and the Father are one." Therefore Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, "I have shown you many good works from my Father. For which of those works do you stone me?" The Jews answered him, "We don't stone you for a good work, but for blasphemy: because you, being a man, 👉make yourself God.' — John 10:30-33

"Of whom are the fathers, and from whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, 👉who is over all, God, blessed forever. Amen." — Romans 9:5

'Thomas answered him, 👉"My Lord and my God!" Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen, and have believed."' — John 20:28-29

"Behold, I come quickly. My reward is with me, to repay to each man according to his work. 👉I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." — Revelation 22:12-13

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and 👉the Word was God." — John 1
👉"The Word became flesh, and lived among us..." — John 14
"He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world didn't recognize him." — John 1:10

"For to us a child is born. To us a son is given; and the government will be on his shoulders. His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, 👉Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." — Isaiah 9:6

'Jesus said, "I'm the light that's over all. 👉I am the All. The All has come from me and unfolds toward me. Split a log; I'm there. Lift the stone, and you'll find me there."' — Gospel of Thomas, Saying 77

"His Son is the radiance of his glory, 👉the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power... " — Hebrews 1:3

”Have this in your mind, which was also in Christ Jesus, who, existing in the form of 👉God, didn't consider equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men. And being found in human form..." — Philippians 2:5-8

'Seeing their faith, he said to him, "Man, your sins are forgiven you." The scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, "Who is this that speaks blasphemies? 👉Who can forgive sins, but God alone?"' — Luke 5:20-21

'When I saw him, I fell at his feet like a dead man. He laid his right hand on me, saying, "Don't be afraid. 👉I am the first and the last, and the Living one. I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. I have the keys of Death and of Hades."' — Revelation 1:17-18

🙌🛐Jesus received worship:
"Where is he who is born King of the Jews? For we saw his star in the east, and have come to worship him." — Matthew 2:2

"They came into the house and saw the young child with Mary, his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him..." — Matthew 2:11

"When they got up into the boat, the wind ceased. Those who were in the boat came and worshiped him... " — Matthew 14:32-33

"... They came and took hold of his feet, and worshiped him." — Matthew 28:9

"He said, "Lord, I believe!" and he worshiped him.' — John 9:38

..."Let all the angels of God worship him." — Hebrews 1:6

⚠️Now compare this to when people tried to worship people or even angels:
📌'I fell down before his feet to worship him [the angel]. 👉He said to me, "Look! Don't do it! I am a fellow bondservant with you and with your brothers who hold the testimony of Jesus. Worship God, for the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy."' — Revelation 19:10

'Now I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. When I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who had shown me these things. He said to me, 👉"See you don't do it! I am a fellow bondservant with you and with your brothers, the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God."' — Revelation 22:8-9

'When it happened that Peter entered, Cornelius met him, 👉fell down at his feet, and worshiped him. But Peter raised him up, saying, 👉"Stand up! I myself am also a man."' — Acts 25:26 [And in Acts 14:8-18, St. Paul rejects worship]

👉And finally, from the mouth of YAHWEH Himself:
⚠️"I will pour on the house of David, and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication; 👉and they will look to me whom they have pierced..." 🔨✝️📌[Understand WHO is speaking here!] — Zachariah 12:10 💜

[davidfigueroa]

Apologetics will say anything for Jesus. They're godlawyers speaking for god and totally ignore historical evidence presented by scholars like Ehrman.